W.HI.P
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On the edge of the labyrinth
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Post by W.HI.P on Aug 15, 2005 20:21:12 GMT
It is as children that we can see things for what they are, without the limitations/defences of the mature conscience mind.
I cannot speak from belief, only from experience.
There are certainly entities, energies, forces, spirits(call them what you like) that function beyond the limitations of matter.
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Post by Al Truest on Aug 15, 2005 20:23:23 GMT
I thought it was all rubbish until some spiritual being decided to rip my sheets off my body early one morning about 10 years ago. Every time I visit my mother's house, I get that eerie feeling when I step inside my old bedroom. As far as religion goes, I think I've lost my faith along the way. Life has been rather trying. The vicissitudes of it all has alerted me to feel banished away from a conducted religion (per Catholicism). It's awkward to do something you feel is right when your religion is telling you that it is immoral and that you're going straight to Hell. Take divorce for example. I love being able to discuss the vicissitudes of 'most anything. ;D The verisimilitudes of religion and spirituality are always an interesting, albeit touchy topic as well. Seriously, religion is at the root of most of the world's strife and violence. A spiritual awakening that brings peace to the individual - rooted in a goodwill to all mankind is achieved in spite of religion or outside of it - but not just because of it. (opinion again)
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Post by Al Truest on Aug 15, 2005 20:43:00 GMT
It is as children that we can see things for what they are, without the limitations/defences of the mature conscience mind. This is not to say that a mature mind must lose it's 'rare innocence' We are all children in relationship to the vast amount of untapped resources and energy that could be available to us. However chasing every butterfly is often but a meaningless diversion. You or I can not know for sure the answer to this. There is as much magic and wonder to philosophy as there is to enchantment. The wise man should seek truth and proof it through relationship, not buy snake-oil sold as truth by some slick barker. That magic has a root in an ordered matrix does not limit it's power or beauty. It is just there to enjoy on whatever level to which you may ascend.
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W.HI.P
Moving
On the edge of the labyrinth
Posts: 561
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Post by W.HI.P on Aug 15, 2005 21:05:58 GMT
What did you think I meant when I said "I can only speak from experience"
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Post by Al Truest on Aug 15, 2005 21:07:54 GMT
What did you think I meant when I said "I can only speak from experience" Oh, I was only adding to your comments, not disagreeing with you. Sorry about that.
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Post by ~Passion~ on Aug 15, 2005 21:13:25 GMT
Sometimes, I think the paranormal is all a big coincidence. The order of occurrences in life exemplifies that. After my Aunt passed away, I kept smelling her perfume. She always wore Ralph Lauren's Safari. Maybe I have never noticed it before. Just strange, I suppose. But because of her death, discerning her scent felt like she was paying me a visit from beyond. Yes, I know... I'm of an odd specimen.
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stev0
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He's an utter creep and he drives me 'round the bend
Posts: 517
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Post by stev0 on Aug 16, 2005 3:23:20 GMT
If you believe in Spirtuality, good for you. If you believe in ghosts, God, or Santa Claus, good for you. If a ghost pulled the sheets off of me, I would believe, too. If I saw the avenging arm of Allah coming from the sky, scimitar in hand, I would become Muslim pronto.
But so far, no ghosts have pulled sheets from me personally, and the sky is pretty clear of avenging arms right now, so I'll keep my agnostic stance for now.
As for coded messages? If I listen to the Clash song Death and Glory, yes, my pulse will go up, my heart rate will quicken. That's because this is a damn good song, not because the Priory of Scion, the Illuminati, and the little green men from Mars have planted secret messages in it.
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Post by Al Truest on Aug 16, 2005 4:37:15 GMT
If you believe in Spirtuality, good for you. If you believe in ghosts, God, or Santa Claus, good for you. If a ghost pulled the sheets off of me, I would believe, too. If I saw the avenging arm of Allah coming from the sky, scimitar in hand, I would become Muslim pronto. But so far, no ghosts have pulled sheets from me personally, and the sky is pretty clear of avenging arms right now, so I'll keep my agnostic stance for now. As for coded messages? If I listen to the Clash song Death and Glory, yes, my pulse will go up, my heart rate will quicken. That's because this is a damn good song, not because the Priory of Scion, the Illuminati, and the little green men from Mars have planted secret messages in it. After cooling off I can now respond. I find your comments ignorant and petty. If you chose to disagree that's fine. But you do not bring any science or theory to bear on the discussion - only smugness and self-righteousness. I prefer to engage someone with a bit more intellectual curiosity and aptitude.
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Post by ~Passion~ on Aug 16, 2005 19:26:51 GMT
...just as I believe people have really cured their headaches by eating a sugar pill a doctor said would cure their headache. Which reminds me of an article I once read... A group of statisticians divided cancer patients into two groups. The first group of people prayed for their sickness. The other half did not. It was the power of prayer that cured group number one's illnesses by 80%. The positive outcome of therapy was much more productive to the first group than group number two. I couldn't really presume this to be true as my family prayed for my beloved Godmother, whom had breast cancer. Nothing could stop Death from taking her away from us. I've lost my faith unfortunately. I'm still waiting for the Great One... whoever He or She is to give me a sign.
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stev0
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Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 1:05:36 GMT
Funny, I recently read an article that stated prayer doesn't do jack. Note: the PATIENT praying works, if only to calm the patient down. Meditation, anything with a calming affect works wonders, doesn't matter if you're praying to Jesus or The Giant Cosmic Muffin. However, person A praying for person B doesn't do jack for person B, especially if they don't know about it.
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Sven Golly
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"In the night you hide from the madman you're longing to be"
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Post by Sven Golly on Aug 17, 2005 2:34:01 GMT
Funny, I recently read an article that stated prayer doesn't do jack. Note: the PATIENT praying works, if only to calm the patient down. Meditation, anything with a calming affect works wonders, doesn't matter if you're praying to Jesus or The Giant Cosmic Muffin. However, person A praying for person B doesn't do jack for person B, especially if they don't know about it. There you go again. Belittling what millions do because you don't understand. Sure there is meditative quality to personal prayer. Yet you would claim to know that there is no spiritual power in collective thought. Have you never been to a football game and seen the momentum and tide turn through and because of collective thought. Have you never felt the presence of love toward you by another? Do you think that people can fuck!ng survive with no hope. If I'm suffering I would hope you could set your pride aside and wish me well. Do you really think we're all on our own? Whether it is God you pray to or just for the goodwill of fellow humankind, don't even attempt to impose your ignorance to dispel a quantifiable phenomenon. Collective thought has power for good or evil. You might ask why then would a space shuttle explode with the eyes of the world watching. Have you ever thought that there may be more sick folks out there wishing more harm than the rest are praying for. There is power out there. This you can never deny without appearing ignorant.
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stev0
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Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 3:08:44 GMT
Captains of winning teams alway make sure to thank God. Just once I'd like to see a sports interview with the captain of the losing team saying, "It's God's fault we lost. We played our best but God let us down."
Do I think we're all on our own? Of course we are! And worshipping "God" in the traditional version makes as little sense to me as worshipping a giant muffin, so I don't see the difference. You pray to your imaginary friend, and the Giant Cosmic Muffin worshippers will pray to theirs, and no one will get hurt.
I don't think a single person prayed that the space shuttle would blow up. Even if there was a small handful, more people were praying for the safety of the astronauts. What, was God having a coffee break at the time?
There is (probably) no power out there. If you want to be superstitious, go for it. Just don't drag me into your silly little games, OK?
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Post by Al Truest on Aug 17, 2005 3:17:43 GMT
Captains of winning teams alway make sure to thank God. Just once I'd like to see a sports interview with the captain of the losing team saying, "It's God's fault we lost. We played our best but God let us down." Do I think we're all on our own? Of course we are! And worshipping "God" in the traditional version makes as little sense to me as worshipping a giant muffin, so I don't see the difference. You pray to your imaginary friend, and the Giant Cosmic Muffin worshippers will pray to theirs, and no one will get hurt. I don't think a single person prayed that the space shuttle would blow up. Even if there was a small handful, more people were praying for the safety of the astronauts. What, was God having a coffee break at the time? There is (probably) no power out there. If you want to be superstitious, go for it. Just don't drag me into your silly little games, OK? C'mon stop calling me silly. I have every right to be respected for my well considered positon. I don't think there is a God around watching every move (especially football games) I do however think that there is a store of living energy which can be tapped. To deny this is to lie to yourself. but I won't insult you further if we can just agree to disagree.
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stev0
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Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 3:24:11 GMT
Sounds good. You'll never convince me that there's "a store of living energy", and I'll never convince you there probably isn't, so any further talk is a waste of both of our times.
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Post by Al Truest on Aug 17, 2005 19:51:38 GMT
I'm am glad to end this discussion on that note. It may now be time to set parameters for acceptable behavior on controversal posts. With the help of other staff, I will formulate some guidelines that will help diminish insulting tone and virilant disagreement. I have fallen into that trap, I plan not to again. Mocking and 'bursting bubbles' I fear will drive valued and civilized members away. Until these guidelines are established such posts should be done by private message or on the ExIV board. If not, please don't be surprised when your posts are deleted. The overall health of this forum is more important than me or any other offending party.
I am locking this thread until after a staff meeting to finalize these proposals. Sorry to anyone who found this line of thought distatseful. Please stand-by.
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