Ghosts - Your Views?

[Neo Stella]

Looking forward to it!

[Al Truest]

OK..I'm going to post this in sections, so as not to go too overboard. I believe faith and truth must be based on justice and support. Just because you believe something is true does not necessarily make it so. It might be true to your intricate belef system; but there are universal truths.

Spirits I believe are the inspirations left by the people before us and around us now. Spirits I do not think are conscious or have the physical capabilities to affect change independently. It is our acting on these inspirations that give the spirit life. It is justice and truth that give it substance.

The power of concepts is great. You can destroy the physical presence of an object, (let's say a chair for example) but once it is gone, the memory and the idea of it remains. Such is the case with spirits. To be continued.....

[Neo Stella]

I look forward to more of your view Al, I really respect your area of studies.

In my experience, I've discovered the presence of just one universal truth......................................................................................

[Al Truest]

New said:

I look forward to more of your view Al, I really respect your area of studies.

In my experience, I've discovered the presence of just one universal truth....

I assume you mean love. I think there are many more, but to me the foremost is consequence.

For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction. What we do in nature has a consequence. Gravity, friction, and inertia are all each a universal truth. We can accept them as valid, or hit the ground like a plummeting fire ball.

There are emotional consequences as well. We humans are capable of discerning far more than the words of others. Body language, tone, inflection etc. The vibes or waves that we discussed earlier, I think, have profound consequences. The vibes that Jesus or Zoroaster put out, for example, still reverberate today with the help of their followers. On a smaller scale, the finger you flip at your fellow motorist can summon bile and adreniline to course through their body.

So to me the consequences should always be considered. Today I was listening in awe, to a right-wing radio talk-show evangelist. This zealot was so negative, so vitriolic and hateful, that he disparages the name of the lord he hopes to worship. This guy condemns his fellow man as 'Sodomites' with the most ignorant and biggoted epiteths imaginable. His so called truth is what is wrong with much of the world today.

Instead of finding common ground (Universal truth) the cultures of the globe are willing to die or kill their brothers to be in the right 'club'.

The Pope, to his credit, has recently set out to bring the major faiths of the world together to find common ground. That is great. But when Catholicism maintains, for example, that birth control is a sin, then you ask me to ignore basic fundamentals of human nature and sexuality. Just as a priest has much difficulty remaining celebate; those in the fold can not expect to only have sex for procreation. The authoritarianism of the church has created so much misery.

Sinead O'conner (if you will recall the suggestion to listen to "Universal Mother" ) addresses some of these issues as they apply to her homeland. Moreover, much of the abuse that she and thousands of others have suffered at the hands of blind faith are a large part of her artistic expression. She is as much a spirtual leader as those in the church in some ways.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-Catholic (I went to a Catholic college and loved the nuns and the wonderful education I received) Nor am I anti-religion. I am only pro freedom of thought and determination. If my actions promote goodwill and peace, then my truth is universal.

Doug, I know that you're going to relate how that dreams can come true, if you only believe. Just remember there will always be onsequences to yourself and to others.

I apologize for the rant. Ignore it if you wish.

[Sven Golly]

So how do you survive wishing only peace and freedom in the midst of world tyranny or terrorism?

[Al Truest]

SvenGolly said:

So how do you survive wishing only peace and freedom in the midst of world tyranny or terrorism?

You let women run the world. ;D

Something like that though. Again listen to the lyrics on "Universal Mother." In particular "Famine." for however controversial it is, it talks about truth and forgiveness. This lyric, to me, is the soul of the album "we used to worship God as a Mother" This song will not sit well with everyone. But seeking the truth and forgiveness is the first step towards peace.

The conflict between the Catholics and the Protestants (Kate Bush has ties to both Ireland and England) is as bitter and enduring as the Middle-East in some fashion. but read more of the lyrics to "Famine" at the bottom of this page, if you wish.*

It would be naive to assume that peace, love and goodwill can appeal to manical despots or brainwashed zealots. But there is more to do than just the immediate response to these elements. The ground work is done day by day person by person. Enlightenment, concern, justice and communication can slow and reverse the ills of societies. The morality that everyone is worried about will only come by embracing human dignity with freedom and justice for all. (did I just say that? somebody should write that down)

But back to your point. Freedom and justice are worth fighting for. However, every response should be measured. You don't kill 50 innocents trying to kill one man. Leadership takes courage. There are noble battles.

Time will tell about the current world situation. My concern is with truth and justice. How many people died in order for a politician to keep his job. That may not be fair, because I assume our leaders know more than we. But, the system is flawed. However, I don't know of a better one than that of the U.S./G.B. tandem. It is our jobs as citizens of the world to seek out universal truth and spread it to everyone we encounter. You don't have to preach. You don't even have to be religious. But your spirtuality has consequences.

* "Famine" from Sinead o'Conner's "Universal Mother":

"See we're ** like a child that's been battered.
Has to drive itself out of it's head because it's frightened.
Still feels all the painful feelings.
But they lose contact with the memory.
And this leads to massive self destruction,
alcoholism, drug addiction,
And in it's worst form, actual killing.
And if there is ever gonna be healin
There has to be rememberin'
And then grieving
There has to be knowledge and understanding"

then there is the Beatles lyric that follows:

"All the lonely people
where do they all come from"

**Ireland.

Powerful stuff, right?

[Neo Stella]

Al said:

Doug, I know that you're going to relate how that dreams can come true, if you only believe. Just remember there will always be onsequences to yourself and to others.

I understand what you are expressing here Al:

All your thoughts and actions have an effect on everyone.
Can you ever be sure they are the right ones?
If they are not does it make you a bad person?

What is so fantastic about the universal truth of Love is, we can attempt to define it, understand it, attempt to use the power of it; yet the experience of it shows that ultimately, even in the most intimate relationships, Love is...........1=0..........Nonsense...........Infinity............

Kate's third album defines it best for me..................................................NEVER FOREVER

[Al Truest]

New said:

I understand what you are expressing here Al:

All your thoughts and actions have an effect on everyone.
Can you ever be sure they are the right ones?
If they are not does it make you a bad person?

Not necessarily bad, but ignorant, arrogant or insensitive maybe, Peace and love means being atuned to the boundaries and dignity of others. We should show responsibility by perceiving how our actions influence others. The truth will set you free. But self serving dreams are often best left in the fantasy realm. Romantic love is a shared vision. Love of mankind however needs no reciprocation and is unconditional.

What is so fantastic about the universal truth of Love is, we can attempt to define it, understand it, attempt to use the power of it; yet the experience of it shows that ultimately, even in the most intimate relationships, Love is...........1=0..........Nonsense...........Infinity............

You lost me here.

[Al Truest]

How about some opinions here?

[Neo Stella]

New said:

What is so fantastic about the universal truth of Love is, we can attempt to define it, understand it, attempt to use the power of it; yet the experience of it shows that ultimately, even in the most intimate relationships, Love is...........1=0..........Nonsense...........Infinity............

NEVER FOREVER

You lost me here!

Perhaps I lost you because you have never been past the point where logic ceases to hold sway.

Quote from Rose, speaking to Jack in the movie, "Titanic":

"It doesn't make any sense at all, that's why I trust it!"

[Al Truest]

You surprise and insult me NEO. I consider myself a free thinker with an irreverent streak. But, discount logic at your own peril.

[Neo Stella]

Al said:

You surprise and insult me NEO. I consider myself a free thinker with an irreverent streak. But, discount logic at your own peril.

Insult was definitely not my intention Al, I only wish to point out a large part of our humanity and our creativity as a species is drawn from that part of us that may forever be cloaked in mystery.

I would NEVER discount your experiences, they make up the great spectrum that is part of being on this planet.

Perhaps if we explored each other's point of view more deeply, we would be pleasantly suprised at what we would find.

[Al Truest]

I wish more people would express their point of view here. It's fun to watch life from the sidelines sometimes; but, eventually you need to get into the game.

[Neo Stella]

Al said:

I wish more people would express their point of view here. It's fun to watch life from the sidelines sometimes; but, eventually you need to get into the game.

As a salesperson you do learn the benefits of taking action as opposed to watching and waiting for "The perfect time." It can be very intimidating sometimes posting on a thread such as this because you may feel you have nothing to contribute.

Yet whatever you say will make a difference however insignificant you think it is.

Try it.........................we need your input.

[madscientist]

Ghosts, maybe maybe not. But one thing is strange sure enough. My granddad died in the late seventies and (I don't know why, as I say, I'm not sure I belive) I always get the feeling that he is watching over me in some way. For example, I have had 2 verybad car crashes and both of them I walked away from, literally, and the police and mechanics say that at the least I should be in a wheel chair. Yeah, thats luck you say, ok I'll go with that but what about the next bit. I am the father of thw boys. One nearly six and the other just short of nine months. The first did this and now the little one is also doing exactly the same. From time to time (the big one used to and) the little one stares in to space, focusing an a point a few feet away, totally absorbed and occasionally giggles or frowns as if laughing at something and then not understanding something else. I have no idea what they see (saw) and my granddad was not really one for small children but it always makes me wonder...

MM