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Post by Al Truest on Jul 21, 2008 22:11:54 GMT
I will. It's quite a thrilling journey. 'Worth the trip tho.
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Adena
Moving
This time around we dance - we're chosen ones
Posts: 611
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Post by Adena on Jul 22, 2008 10:38:59 GMT
Running up that road, with no problems. Well done Rosa, and good luck for your future here.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jul 22, 2008 14:50:26 GMT
^ Thanks. ;D I think I'll definitely be here a long time...
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Post by Al Truest on Jul 27, 2008 15:01:24 GMT
I had a dream just a few hours ago. I was dreaming about Galileo. (O.K. I'm weird ) Many of his observations were because he had greater vision in that he had better tools e.g., the telescope. His invention had done much to advance our understanding and also to dispel so much myth that surrounded our understanding of the cosmos. Not all of Galileo's theories were correct; but he is a step in the progression of our place in the universe. My dream was largely a semi-lucid state where I consider the function of the lens in a telescope. Essentially light waves are concentrated or warped because of the convex and concave glass. But this simple concept is so much more profound than people now or then realize, I believe. It is an analogy of how space and time function. When we concentrate and direct light as mean kids do to ants with a magnifying glass the result is intense energy, heat and death. Is this not what happens when star systems move closer over light years and are swallowed up into black holes. Conversely, when we warp the light our view is cast in a panoramic channel that allows us to see the warp on each horizon and the almost infinite view at the targets of our perspective. To me this is just another analogy to support my belief that all of life is on a journey that is cast out into the abyss. We will try to explain it out of fear and need. Myths will and always have developed to satisfy our inherent psychological need to feel safe and secure - or to have awesome consequence for defying the will and order of 'god', 'gods' or just our own little paranoid sphere. Along the way so many of us become comfortable with the convention of the day...the dogma, the faith the superstition and ritual. But if we stay in one place too long we get burned. Stagnation only slows decay. We must constantly vanquish the demons of fear and ignorance. Just as Galileo was rebuked and scores of others who have defied tradition and theology, the telescope does not lie. As new theories emerge from the bits of truth from the genius of the past and the vision of contemporaries - me included (with due humility) we can better understand our place and our destiny. The destiny for all is death and rebirth. We can condemn ourselves to the hell of ignorance and fear, or we can free our souls to find deep and more far reaching comfort and joy. You don't have to believe me. I am glad that my life isn't at risk for saying it. But people are still dying because of their beliefs. I hope we are examining our lives. It is in the community of support that we can bring people with us on our journeys. Comments wanted...negative or otherwise.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jul 27, 2008 18:25:53 GMT
I had a dream just a few hours ago. I was dreaming about Galileo. (O.K. I'm weird ) Many of his observations were because he had greater vision in that he had better tools e.g., the telescope. His invention had done much to advance our understanding and also to dispel so much myth that surrounded our understanding of the cosmos. Not all of Galileo's theories were correct; but he is a step in the progression of our place in the universe. This sounds like a truly inspiring and powerful dream. And Galileo was a visionary thinker who helped dismantle some of the narrow worldviews that humans sustain. I love the idea of a lens being an analogy for the way space and time work. When light or other wave energy is gathered and intensified, the force of its movement and heat does seem to cause it to burn out into death. Maybe this is sort of what happens to pure existence as it begins to settle into the forms of space and time and the cycles of perishing and renewal. Light is magnified and collected and then, going forward from that, is swallowed into extinguishment. And I like your connection with star systems moving together and slipping into black holes. In fact this all reminds me a bit of what Tannis mentioned earlier about thanatological passion and death-fear and death-wish... how the death-fear is fear of losing the self, fear of being swallowed up. I think that often myths, when they are functional and healthy ones, reflect the same view of life being cast in and out of an abyss, and a constant cycle of growth and decay. They try to frame this in a way that lets us live well, find our place in the world, and give faith and comfort in a continuity or immortality that transcends and permeates these cycles, IMO. But because of human narrow-mindedness, they do often grow stagnant and based simply on our attachments to our limitations. Stagnation is a true evil to be avoided, for it means the decay of being out of harmony with its rising and falling. We must constantly cross the thresholds, and open our souls beyond terror. And that means that scientists and free thinkers are most often the ones truly carrying out the heroic journey. Yes. Well said. I agree that our heaven or hell is up to the openness of our hearts to a grander, more wondrous, and more beautiful reality. And we should definitely keep examining our lives. It's wonderful that so many people here can come together to do that contemplating and examining. I hope these comments were helpful.
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Post by Al Truest on Jul 27, 2008 22:28:03 GMT
I had a dream just a few hours ago. I was dreaming about Galileo. (O.K. I'm weird )... It is good when we can be inspired by dreams and then have an outlet to assimilate the energy. Madness and hearing voices may be no more than the genius or sensitive soul being unable to process or decipher the inspiration. John Nash, noble prize winner and the central character portrayed in the film "A Beautiful Mind" is evidence of this phenomenon (or what I have coined it ) The mind is beautiful and fragile. If and when we do break down superstition and myth we must be mindful that beliefs are constructs that each of us build to offer safe harbor from the unknown. Grace is so important, I think, in acceptance and tolerance of the mechanics of myth and the necessity and function they represent. It is like assembling a coat to me. Taking anecdotal and inspirational truth and weaving the consistent fibers into a fabric that will not unravel easily offers solace and protection. So many small and readily available analogies are there for us to grasp and apply. If we fail to pick up the challenge of discovery we will be forever doomed to the reality of consequence. I think we have a duty to ourselves to look past what we are told if it does not ring true in our hearts. The mind has a complex matrix that we are constantly rewiring. Short circuits occur when we are not vigilant or when external forces circumvent the truth. We will always be bombarded by someone else's ideas. If we don't examine them then something like a Third Reich or worse can become the model. And on a smaller scale personal hell can be our fate. If death is the onset of new beginning then we have hope. I have this without doubt. I have already made plans... Yes. Myths or coping mechanisms perform a vital function. Our intolerance of others because of our own beliefs puts us at odds. When we admit that we don't have the answers fully, then we are always open to a new challenge and crusade. You think so much like me. You must be smart. ditto: Yes. Well said. I agree that our heaven or hell is up to the openness of our hearts to a grander, more wondrous, and more beautiful reality. And we should definitely keep examining our lives. It's wonderful that so many people here can come together to do that contemplating and examining. I hope these comments were helpful. I enjoyed your comments Rosa. Anyone else?
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jul 28, 2008 0:30:33 GMT
It is good when we can be inspired by dreams and then have an outlet to assimilate the energy. Madness and hearing voices may be no more than the genius or sensitive soul being unable to process or decipher the inspiration. John Nash, noble prize winner and the central character portrayed in the film "A Beautiful Mind" is evidence of this phenomenon (or what I have coined it ) The mind is beautiful and fragile. Yes. It often seems that the most sensitive and inspired of minds are simultaneously more fragile or perilous. The flow of the unconscious and of inspiration can be the source of danger as well as treasure. And when we leave it open to the revelatory and renewing forces of creativity, we also open to madness. That's where balance, and an outlet for ideas, is so important. We must be careful that we cross the barriers when we are ready, in accord with the benevolent force of destiny, I think. Grace and safety are the inner strength from which a journey unfolds. Good analogy. It reminds me of the first part this: A Coat
I made myself a coat Covered with embroideries Out of old mythologies From heel to throat; But the fools caught it, Wore it in the world's eyes As though they'd wrought it. Song, let them take it For there's more enterprise In walking naked.
W. B. Yeats Yes. We must be always reinventing and reassessing the truth handed down to us... Hope is so important. And so have I... LOL. ;D Thanks. And I agree about the function of myths. Hopefully they should be widening influence in the face of great mystery. I'm glad you did. And yes, I'd love to hear more opinions on this! Come on, people.
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Post by Al Truest on Jul 29, 2008 17:30:14 GMT
Continuing with the wonders of the mind; I love this quote from "Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joesph Campbell ( thanks Rosa ): "Master of Two Worlds" "Freedom to pass back and forth through world division - not contaminating the principles of one with those of the other; yet permitting the mind to know the one by the virtue of the other. This is the talent of the master." The Cosmic Dancer" declares Nietzsche does not rest heavily on one spot. But gaily and lightly turns and leaps from one position to the other. "It is possible to speak from only one point at a time. But that does not invalidate the insights of the rest" Can each of us master this transmigration. With pure intent we can. I can. If we are to protect ourselves from madness while freeing our spirits to find deeper joy and challenge; then we must vanquish the old and the ugly for a newer cleaner and happier horizon. If this is a constant quest, with our intent as our guide, then this is not all absurd. And there is room for love to reach to every heart.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Jul 30, 2008 10:49:20 GMT
Myths will and always have developed to satisfy our inherent psychological need to feel safe and secure - or to have awesome consequence for defying the will and order of 'god', 'gods' or just our own little paranoid sphere. Along the way so many of us become comfortable with the convention of the day...the dogma, the faith the superstition and ritual. But if we stay in one place too long we get burned. Stagnation only slows decay. We must constantly vanquish the demons of fear and ignorance. I recall as that as a small child I had some superstitious beliefs, rituals and fears. Fear of the dark for example. It's so strange that many adults never seem to completely cast off that mind-set of fear and ignorance. I suspect that many people like to 'guard' their belief system because of fear of death. If their belief system says that they will be rewarded in the after-life, and then someone like Galileo comes along and shows the world as it truly is then this may indicate that their beliefs are wrong. If your beliefs can crumble because of a telescope, then maybe they weren't very good beliefs. This is always the central difficulty with gods - gods are supposed to be omniscient - so if your god is wrong about even just one thing then clearly they've failed you. Also I suspect that those in charge of religions don't like their authority to be challenged. So, I think it's a mixture of the personal and political. --Paul--
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jul 30, 2008 16:34:55 GMT
Paul, thanks for joining in. I think you're right that fear of death is quite central in the fear of new ideas... intellectual growth does always means dying to old or obsolete ideas. And when we come up against the limits of our ways of thought, the unknown can seem ready to annihilate us, to swallow our myths and faiths up in darkness. Yet I think true faith or a healthy, productive mythology is something that helps us beyond those barriers of unknowing - just like science.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jul 30, 2008 16:44:24 GMT
Continuing with the wonders of the mind; I love this quote from "Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joesph Campbell ( thanks Rosa ): "Master of Two Worlds" "Freedom to pass back and forth through world division - not contaminating the principles of one with those of the other; yet permitting the mind to know the one by the virtue of the other. This is the talent of the master." The Cosmic Dancer" declares Nietzsche does not rest heavily on one spot. But gaily and lightly turns and leaps from one position to the other. "It is possible to speak from only one point at a time. But that does not invalidate the insights of the rest" Can each of us master this transmigration. With pure intent we can. I can. If we are to protect ourselves from madness while freeing our spirits to find deeper joy and challenge; then we must vanquish the old and the ugly for a newer cleaner and happier horizon. If this is a constant quest, with our intent as our guide, then this is not all absurd. And there is room for love to reach to every heart. I'm glad you're enjoying the book! To be able to transit the realms both of the mythic realm and the realm of ordinary consciousness is indeed the gift of someone who has found a lot of understanding. It reminds me of the idea of a mystagogue - like Hermes, who led the souls of the dead down to Hades and had the power of passage through the underworld. To be able to move through both realms is quite close to finding the inner kinship in them, I think. We find our balance between heaven and earth, and keep the two together so that neither is barren of the other's influence. When we live with love and intent, fearlessly and sanely, I think we have mastered the transmigration. Interesting quote, and a wonderful book...
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Jul 30, 2008 18:50:24 GMT
Paul, thanks for joining in. I think you're right that fear of death is quite central in the fear of new ideas... intellectual growth does always means dying to old or obsolete ideas. And when we come up against the limits of our ways of thought, the unknown can seem ready to annihilate us, to swallow our myths and faiths up in darkness. Yet I think true faith or a healthy, productive mythology is something that helps us beyond those barriers of unknowing - just like science. Yes indeed rosa, I certainly meant death of one's one worldview (as well as one's own physical death). I think that when people fear annihilation it is as much this kind of defeat that they fear as much as any physical ending. Also I suspect that some people just aren't imaginative enough to envisage a world beyond the one they know. Perhaps they truly believe that bringing down their worldview would really be the end of the world. It would be as if their weltanschauung was the only valid way to experience life; and that everyone who didn't see things "their way" was just a hollow person living a shallow mockery of a life. --Paul--
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jul 30, 2008 18:57:47 GMT
Yes indeed rosa, I certainly meant death of one's one worldview (as well as one's own physical death). I think that when people fear annihilation it is as much this kind of defeat that they fear as much as any physical ending. Also I suspect that some people just aren't imaginative enough to envisage a world beyond the one they know. Perhaps they truly believe that bringing down their worldview would really be the end of the world. It would be as if their weltanschauung was the only valid way to experience life; and that everyone who didn't see things "their way" was just a hollow person living a shallow mockery of a life. --Paul-- Yes... And yet if we're willing to risk the breakdown of our familiar world, the world that springs up anew can be so much wider and more wondrous and exciting. If we let go of the limits that keep our worldview the only true universe, and other people's a shallow mockery, so much more joy can be felt.
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 30, 2008 1:42:06 GMT
...continued: If there is interest I would truly like to engage anyone willing to read the following links and comment: www.catholiceducation.org/articles/science/sc0022.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtrecsep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/hotbb.htmlwww.bell-labs.com/project/feature/archives/cosmology/www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dp65co.htmlsoutherncrossreview.org/52/rudnicki-5.htmIt would seem that the vast consensus in the scientific community is that Lemaitre's 'Big Bang' Theory has been accepted as fact. - that there was 'a day without yesterday' when the Universe all started... Even Einstein seemed to warm to the idea. Nonetheless Einstein, Gamoff and many many others preferred and intuitively believed in a 'Steady State' universe; wherein there was no beginning and there will be no end. It must be stated, I think, that there are too many discrepancies and assumptions made on both sides to indeed have an answer that is satisfactory to everyone. I find it smug and presumptuous to have the nerve to claim a starting date i.e. 15 billion years or so as the day nothingness changed into 'something'... Here are some basic questions: * If infinity can exist as a concept - then how can we dismiss it? * If a single atom or 'God Particle' started this all, would not all of the elements already exist in a compressed state within this particle (at least the building blocks)? * If the 'Big Bang' is the beginning - where does all of this go?...Stephen Hawking believes that all of this expanding will eventually start to recede or reach an apogee. (similar to my hypothesis) * Why would it not be logical to ask why the big bang we are talking about was the first and only big bang? What if that was just the point were it all recycled? A step further - how can we be sure that multiple big bangs have not been going on forever? (note 'Big Crunch" in the first link) * If every action has an equal an opposite reaction, what reaction caused the first big bang? * can we ever as frail humans conceive all the power and wonder of reality and spiritual energy? Finally - is the journey not more fun than the destination? Otherwise this is all absurd... My original premise in this thread was that intuition and inspiration can set our souls on fire. ..that art, music, genius and collective spiritual energy is creating and recreating and conversely deconstructing and decaying is occurring in equal fashion. It is only when genius meets state of the art instruments that theories gain momentum. I just believe that we will never have the tools or the power to measure the whole of realty. Therefore the quest and the unions are the faith in Good or faith in God that we can all aspire to... Please comment...
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Post by tannis on Oct 2, 2008 17:45:36 GMT
Al, thank you for these links. I gave them a try, but particle physics was never my best subject! Though the third link does offer a very good introduction to Stars, Galaxies, and Cosmology.The Fate of the Universe The Universe is currently expanding. One extremely important cosmological question is whether this expansion will continue forever. As we shall see later, this is a question that does not yet have a definitive answer. Ultimately, this will turn out to be a question of how much mass is contained in the Universe. If it is below a critical amount, the Universe will expand forever. If it is above the critical amount, the expansion will eventually reverse and the Universe will collapse on itself, leading to what has been termed the big crunch. If it is exactly equal to the critical amount, the expansion will slow, but will only stop after an infinite amount of time. Thus, in this case the Universe will expand forever too. Stars, Galaxies, and Cosmology csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/index.htmlThe "big crunch" reminds me of the current banking crisis. So is Capitalism about to collapse in on itself... It is only when genius meets state of the art instruments that theories gain momentum. I just believe that we will never have the tools or the power to measure the whole of realty. Therefore the quest and the unions are the faith in Good or faith in God that we can all aspire to... The Large Hadron Collider is exciting, but I share your belief that we will never have the tools or power to measure the whole of realty, and that we should always aspire to doing good.
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