Things we should know

[Al Truest]

Pick up on any of these building blocks for understanding our world both large and small. I will respond to any of these topics of interest (to me at least). I would also encourage (mostly tannis) to provide some links and cut and paste references.

Amino Acids - AGTC (Uracil in RNA) or the affect of zinc on DNA
Mandelbrot set - Fractal Geometry
Punnett Squares - Genetics
Fibonacci Sequence - Golden Rectangles/Spirals etc
Behavioral Chemistry and how we can rewire our matrix.

And here are some questions for debate -

Does heredity and evolution alter subsequent generations through imbuing our propensities and intent through reconfiguration of our genetic code by chemical and subatomic wavelength impressions on our DNA?

Can mathematics describe all of reality?

Do we send out and receive subatomic energy from each other and even from spirits and icons?

[rosabelbelieve]

Well, apparently there's a lot I should know, 'cos only half of this sounds familiar to me at the moment. This sounds like a promising thread though, and I will try to illuminate my ignorance in the morning.

[rosabelbelieve]

altruest said:

Can mathematics describe all of reality?

OK, I think I can reply to this one right away. In my opinion, mathematics is a very valuable tool to finding patterns and order in the universe, but it is not the whole story. To me, thinking that in the immense mystery and wonder of the world, everything could simply be explained by numbers is hard to believe. The field of 'all of reality' is so vast that I don't think math, science, religion or any other one system of understanding is enough to comprehend it all. Each contains truth, but the clearest picture is put together by all pieces of the puzzle- pieces that are logical and pieces that are paradoxical, pieces of a mythological, story-based knowledge of the world and pieces of a factual scientific understanding.

I also think that it would be a very rare thing to gain a real sense of peace and spiritual wisdom from mathematics (though certainly not impossivle, and Kate explores this idea on Pi...) And I think that this sense of tranquillity and almost mystical wonder at the world is just as important as knowledge of the way things work. That said, though, I think the best and most enlightening science and mathematics search for answers without depleting this gorgeous wonder at life that is so essential, for me, to being happy and inspired. Didn't Socrates say "Wisdom is born of wonder" ? I think that's a wonderful quote, and I personally would say wisdom is reincarnated in wonder- wisdom as a sort of spiraling path... Spiraling because it goes through cycles and yet also progresses... Sorry, I'm getting a bit off topic here. Just didn't want to lose the thought.

So, in answer to your question, no, not quite, IMO. It is a very valuable tool, though.

[Al Truest]

rosabelbelieve said:

altruest said:

Can mathematics describe all of reality?

OK, I think I can reply to this one right away. In my opinion, mathematics is a very valuable tool to finding patterns and order in the universe, but it is not the whole story. To me, thinking that in the immense mystery and wonder of the world, everything could simply be explained by numbers is hard to believe. The field of 'all of reality' is so vast that I don't think math, science, religion or any other one system of understanding is enough to comprehend it all. Each contains truth, but the clearest picture is put together by all pieces of the puzzle- pieces that are logical and pieces that are paradoxical, pieces of a mythological, story-based knowledge of the world and pieces of a factual scientific understanding.

May be. But I am not fully ready to say that formulas can't describe and explain how creations are formed - how they reproduce and how they behave. If all of consciousness is no more than pulsing wavelengths; then who knows?

I also think that it would be a very rare thing to gain a real sense of peace and spiritual wisdom from mathematics (though certainly not impossivle, and Kate explores this idea on Pi...) And I think that this sense of tranquillity and almost mystical wonder at the world is just as important as knowledge of the way things work. That said, though, I think the best and most enlightening science and mathematics search for answers without depleting this gorgeous wonder at life that is so essential, for me, to being happy and inspired. Didn't Socrates say "Wisdom is born of wonder" ? I think that's a wonderful quote, and I personally would say wisdom is reincarnated in wonder- wisdom as a sort of spiraling path... Spiraling because it goes through cycles and yet also progresses... Sorry, I'm getting a bit off topic here. Just didn't want to lose the thought.

So, in answer to your question, no, not quite, IMO. It is a very valuable tool, though.

Good points. The jury is still out for me though. Words will never fully describe - but codes, formulas and equations put legs on inspiration.

[rosabelbelieve]

altruest said:

May be. But I am not fully ready to say that formulas can't describe and explain how creations are formed - how they reproduce and how they behave. If all of consciousness is no more than pulsing wavelengths; then who knows?

I do think it can explain quite a bit of reality, and nothing about this is anywhere near certain. I just think there will probably, at least in this life, always be "just that something more" or even the digits of pi that we will never calculate. Maybe a better way of stating it is that we cannot hope to completely understand the world solely by mathematics. (IMO) If consciousness is nothing but pulsing wavelengths, isn't there still the question of how and why it arose, why it is the way it is, and what purpose does it have? Just trying to get people thinking....

Good points. The jury is still out for me though. Words will never fully describe - but codes, formulas and equations put legs on inspiration.

I have to admit, as a writer, I'm very attached to my words. They are my personal way of trying to formulate a 'universal code' and give my inspirations a bit more solidity. I am sure that people who have an interest in math feel quite the same way about codes, formulas and equation. I think both have absolutely vital importance. Without words, we would have no way to communicate, embody, or express any idea in the world. I think formulas and equations serve quite a similar purpose. But they are both are undeniably just symbols, in my view. There's a wonderful little paradox there, I think, of trying to express the inexpressible. That's what I often feel my inclination towards writing is. That's what makes it so powerful, for me. And maybe a complete understanding could be come by from any one of many paths- mathematical, spiritual, artistic, scientific... I don't think it's impossible. We will never be done with the quest for knowledge, IMO. But on the way there are creative masterpieces, incredible theories, impressions of the mystical, that are all, in my eyes, very real triumphs.

[Al Truest]

rosabelbelieve said:

altruest said:

May be. But I am not fully ready to say that formulas can't describe and explain...

If it all started with a big bang(s) or it has always been an infinite loop of cognitive explosions, then it is all likened to billiard balls that react to force, gravity, inertia, etc. 'just things bouncing off of each other. For every action there is (and has been and forever will be) equal and opposite reaction. All these reactions (?) probably can be measured. And if "String Theory" is indeed correct, then how reality is 'calculated' may be possible through the constants in math. Maybe reason and emotion have measurable stimuli in sub-atomic movements. Good and evil - light and dark, love and anger (etc) ...'all just actions and reactions??

If consciousness is nothing but pulsing wavelengths, isn't there still the question of how and why it arose, why it is the way it is, and what purpose does it have? Just trying to get people thinking....

What if reality (as others have theorized) is only a construct of one's imagination... You think - therefore you are - also is the saying. So if all concepts are just constructs of our own cognitive awareness, then why is it that we are not all part of a single mass and the big-bang(s) are not just the epiphanic bursts of birth that begins a cycle of growth and decay - positive and negative and ultimately life and regeneration? So if there is order in the Universe, every event since our beginnings could be measured with a "Golden Calculator" (borrowed that term from Outkast )

I have to admit, as a writer, I'm very attached to my words. They are my personal way of trying to formulate a 'universal code' and give my inspirations a bit more solidity. Without words, we would have no way to communicate, embody, or express any idea in the world.

As you can tell, I am fond of my words as well. They massage and cajole - inflame and quell - inspire and depress. Yet they are tools that fuel the engines of evolution and change. That said, it may even be possible to measure each word ever spoken by wavelength, volume and possibly efficacy by degree of impact. It is still cause and effect...

I think formulas and equations serve quite a similar purpose. But they are both are undeniably just symbols, in my view.

I may be wrong (I know some of you are smiling ) but math represents solace and reliance that there is order in the Universe. And by what other measure can we have absolute faith in the results? ...This is all just opinion. But also fodder for further speculation from others...

[rosabelbelieve]

altruest said:

If it all started with a big bang(s) or it has always been an infinite loop of cognitive explosions, then it is all likened to billiard balls that react to force, gravity, inertia, etc. 'just things bouncing off of each other. For every action there is (and has been and forever will be) equal and opposite reaction. All these reactions (?) probably can be measured. And if "String Theory" is indeed correct, then how reality is 'calculated' may be possible through the constants in math. Maybe reason and emotion have measurable stimuli in sub-atomic movements. Good and evil - light and dark, love and anger (etc) ...'all just actions and reactions??

You know, I was thinking about this more last night, and I wonder if part of the reason human beings have such a hard time finding answers to 'the big questions' is that often when we have an answer, we characterize it as a 'nothing but' or 'just...' (I was doing this a little while ago..) Really, if reality could be calculated and measured completely by math, that would be quite a wonderful thing. The idea that emotions could "have measurable stimuli in sub-atomic movements" is also pretty marvelous, I think.

Maybe I need to examine my perception of answers a bit- there's an area here where I have some ambivalence. On one side, I have have the belief that certain things are simply inexpressible, simply beyond the scope of human understanding, huge and awe-inspiring mysteries which 'we have no choice in the matter' in listening to and accepting. On the other, there is that great desire to express the inexpressible, to find that universal code, that cosmic understanding, that complete enlightenment. My very own Hestia/Hermes conflict! Oh joy.
Hope I don't end up like poor X in GOoMH...

What if reality (as others have theorized) is only a construct of one's imagination... You think - therefore you are - also is the saying. So if all concepts are just constructs of our own cognitive awareness, then why is it that we are not all part of a single mass and the big-bang(s) are not just the epiphanic bursts of birth that begins a cycle of growth and decay - positive and negative and ultimately life and regeneration? So if there is order in the Universe, every event since our beginnings could be measured with a "Golden Calculator" (borrowed that term from Outkast )

The idea that all reality is a construct one's imagination is something I've certainly thought about. And I do agree with it, I think, to a point. We really do influence the world around us with thought, intent, and and consciousness, IMO, and I am a great believer in the power of imagination to give order, logic, light and harmony to what it focuses it's beam on. Imagination is actually a little concept of mine- imagination as alchemy, as mercurius, the substance that changes and transmutes the prima materia chaos of reality into the gold of understanding.

But that's just what I think it does- transmutes. We don't create the universe, IMO. There are always inescapable realities, fates or earthboundness or impossibilities, that prevent us from this. But I think we absolutely must try to transcend these limitations. And moments of transcendence are afforded to all of us. Inspirations, revelations, and a breathtaking order in the universe are, IMO, everywhere around us. At once all around us, and incredibly hard to capture. We all have our personal journeys to reconcile these desires and these impossibilities, I think. And many of us succeed in our own ways... Sorry, I'm not being very clear... It's hard to put these ideas clearly into words for me without crossing into ambivalence and paradox.
And I'm not sure this really relates to what you said anymore, but again, I didn't want to lose the thought... I'm going to have to start keeping a notebook for these things. You guys are very inspiring.

As you can tell, I am fond of my words as well. They massage and cajole - inflame and quell - inspire and depress. Yet they are tools that fuel the engines of evolution and change. That said, it may even be possible to measure each word ever spoken by wavelength, volume and possibly efficacy by degree of impact. It is still cause and effect...

I must admit (just when I think I'm king ) that without words, I would be very miserable, and quite ignorant. I think they are very powerful things, quite akin to the way I described the imagination. Maybe it is possible to 'measure each word ever said' with math, and it is still cause and effect, true. But I think there's one level where words go beyond that- where they become a sort of universal narrative, a way to uncover the order of the cosmos. That's where they really interest me- as a way to describe, illuminate, and give order to reality.

I may be wrong (I know some of you are smiling ) but math represents solace and reliance that there is order in the Universe. And by what other measure can we have absolute faith in the results? ...This is all just opinion. But also fodder for further speculation from others...

True. I'm probably a little bit biased against math, because I always find it so damn hard to understand! But songs like Pi and threads like this help me think a bit differently. I don't know if we can have absolute faith in the results- aren't there still patches in math where very weird and unexplainable things happen, like when you divide by zero...? I don't know enough about it to judge, yet, though. I'll have to get back to you once I've gotten over my paradoxical little Hestia/Hermes thing, or failing that, just keep rattling off my own nonsense.. ;D

Some other thoughts of mine-- paradoxes.. I often find that what seem like my greatest answers become them, and have concluded that they are actually quite important to deeper understanding, though rather hard to communicate... And order in the universe.. hmm, maybe I should take this to the universal code thread? Sorry, Al, I guess this is getting a bit off topic.

[Al Truest]

rosabelbelieve said:

altruest said:

it is all likened to billiard balls that react to force, gravity, inertia, etc. 'just things bouncing off of each other....'all just actions and reactions??

You know, I was thinking about this more last night, and I wonder if part of the reason human beings have such a hard time finding answers to 'the big questions' is that often when we have an answer, we characterize it as a 'nothing but' or 'just...' (I was doing this a little while ago..) Really, if reality could be calculated and measured completely by math, that would be quite a wonderful thing. The idea that emotions could "have measurable stimuli in sub-atomic movements" is also pretty marvelous, I think.

Yet sometimes large concepts can be scaled down to a more simple and distinguishable comparison. There are so many analogies that the sheer redundancy of them should be obvious to any curious mind...e.g. how cycles and polarity are repeated in nature and relationships.. And why is it so amazing to imagine that wavelength stimuli can direct the traffic of events and relationships or help communicate nonverbally. How else can we explain what sets people off in anger or conversely calms them down by a dampening effect from a consoling sentiment. Magic? I think not. As far as I know I am the only person advancing this idea as a part of 'String Theory'

Maybe I need to examine my perception of answers a bit- there's an area here where I have some ambivalence. On one side, I have have the belief that certain things are simply inexpressible, simply beyond the scope of human understanding, huge and awe-inspiring mysteries which 'we have no choice in the matter' in listening to and accepting. On the other, there is that great desire to express the inexpressible, to find that universal code, that cosmic understanding, that complete enlightenment. My very own Hestia/Hermes conflict! Oh joy.
Hope I don't end up like poor X in GOoMH...

The joy is in the journey. IMO Even if you think you have the answers, the ability to stay centered in the midst of turmoil and temptation will require being ever vigilant.

The idea that all reality is a construct one's imagination is something I've certainly thought about. And I do agree with it, I think, to a point. We really do influence the world around us with thought, intent, and and consciousness, IMO, and I am a great believer in the power of imagination to give order, logic, light and harmony to what it focuses it's beam on. Imagination is actually a little concept of mine- imagination as alchemy, as mercurius, the substance that changes and transmutes the prima materia chaos of reality into the gold of understanding.

But that's just what I think it does- transmutes. We don't create the universe, IMO.

We ARE the Universe i,e,. each of us as a part of the whole. If infinity has no beginning or end - then we are forever recreating the Universe. As we interact and evolve. (My opinion of course)

There are always inescapable realities, fates or earthboundness or impossibilities, that prevent us from this. But I think we absolutely must try to transcend these limitations. And moments of transcendence are afforded to all of us. Inspirations, revelations, and a breathtaking order in the universe are, IMO, everywhere around us. At once all around us, and incredibly hard to capture. We all have our personal journeys to reconcile these desires and these impossibilities, I think. And many of us succeed in our own ways... Sorry, I'm not being very clear... It's hard to put these ideas clearly into words for me without crossing into ambivalence and paradox.
And I'm not sure this really relates to what you said anymore, but again, I didn't want to lose the thought... I'm going to have to start keeping a notebook for these things. You guys are very inspiring.

Those that are willing to grow and evolve will see more of the truth in small glimpses from those who have elevated us in the past (teachers, philosophers etc). And through the epiphanies that we create together to raise all ships in a tide of goodwill and enlightenment; some of us will achieve higher planes of joy and satisfaction. There is an opposite fate that can be created from being incongruent with the forces of Glory.

I must admit (just when I think I'm king ) that without words, I would be very miserable, and quite ignorant. I think they are very powerful things, quite akin to the way I described the imagination. Maybe it is possible to 'measure each word ever said' with math, and it is still cause and effect, true. But I think there's one level where words go beyond that- where they become a sort of universal narrative, a way to uncover the order of the cosmos. That's where they really interest me- as a way to describe, illuminate, and give order to reality.

...knowing enough of the answer is impetus for bringing your fellow man along for the ride. Zealots will do it out of vanity or pride - when all that is necessary is that your intent be pure. That is an ongoing struggle as well. But we each, I think, have the power to change the world everyday...through our words, our intent and our actions.

I may be wrong (I know some of you are smiling ) but math represents solace and reliance that there is order in the Universe. And by what other measure can we have absolute faith in the results? ...This is all just opinion. But also fodder for further speculation from others...

True. I'm probably a little bit biased against math, because I always find it so damn hard to understand! But songs like Pi and threads like this help me think a bit differently. I don't know if we can have absolute faith in the results- aren't there still patches in math where very weird and unexplainable things happen, like when you divide by zero...? I don't know enough about it to judge, yet, though. I'll have to get back to you once I've gotten over my paradoxical little Hestia/Hermes thing, or failing that, just keep rattling off my own nonsense.. ;D

Some other thoughts of mine-- paradoxes.. I often find that what seem like my greatest answers become them, and have concluded that they are actually quite important to deeper understanding, though rather hard to communicate... And order in the universe.. hmm, maybe I should take this to the universal code thread? Sorry, Al, I guess this is getting a bit off topic.

I enjoyed all of your comments Rosa. So few will even bother to think that deeply. But remember this - 'describing' and explaining can two different concepts

[rosabelbelieve]

altruest said:

Yet sometimes large concepts can be scaled down to a more simple and distinguishable comparison. There are so many analogies that the sheer redundancy of them should be obvious to any curious mind...e.g. how cycles and polarity are repeated in nature and relationships.. And why is it so amazing to imagine that wavelength stimuli can direct the traffic of events and relationships or help communicate nonverbally. How else can we explain what sets people off in anger or conversely calms them down by a dampening effect from a consoling sentiment. Magic? I think not. As far as I know I am the only person advancing this idea as a part of 'String Theory'

One clarification about it being 'amazing' - I was really just trying to say that having an answer to something doesn't have the to take the beauty and glory out of it. (And actually saying that mostly to myself. ) I don't think it's magical, that's not quite the right word; maybe beautiful or glorious would be better. And again, this is mostly a personal observation on the way I perceive certainty and universal truth.

altruest said:

The joy is in the journey. IMO Even if you think you have the answers, the ability to stay centered in the midst of turmoil and temptation will require being ever vigilant.

Very much agree with this.

We ARE the Universe i,e,. each of us as a part of the whole. If infinity has no beginning or end - then we are forever recreating the Universe. As we interact and evolve. (My opinion of course)

^ Really very similar to what I meant about transmutation, I think. I agree.

Those that are willing to grow and evolve will see more of the truth in small glimpses from those who have elevated us in the past (teachers, philosophers etc). And through the epiphanies that we create together to raise all ships in a tide of goodwill and enlightenment; some of us will achieve higher planes of joy and satisfaction. There is an opposite fate that can be created from being incongruent with the forces of Glory.

Well said. It's so important for people to bring together their ideas on topics like this, though it seems it's often a only few brave souls who actually do so. And the presence of others before you on the quest for truth is an incredibly comforting and enlightening thing.

That is an ongoing struggle as well. But we each, I think, have the power to change the world everyday...through our words, our intent and our actions.

Very much so. The work for a deeper understanding, I think, really takes place at the level of very ordinary things, very ordinary situations, very ordinary relationships... I think a true understanding of life begins to elevate and illuminate the world on this level, IMO.

I enjoyed all of your comments Rosa. So few will even bother to think that deeply. But remember this - 'describing' and explaining can two different concepts

I'm very glad you did. And you're right, there is a great difference between 'describing' and 'explaining'... I will remember to keep that in mind.

[rosabelbelieve]

^ Really fascinating link, hope. It makes you think about how interwoven our lives and our constructions are with mathematics. And I just find it so wonderful that the forms of nature are fractals, and we can see that and discover their seed shapes and know the formulas from which they unfold.