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Post by brillo69 on Jun 11, 2004 1:41:15 GMT
Well, I hope that means you liked it at least a little. She may not be to everyone's taste, but it is a good song. Oddly, a very positive, romantic song for this album, since most of it is fairly down with love. Anyway, after I heard the news and was listening to this album, I thought about the two of you wanting to meet. The idea of closing your eyes and sending your spirit to the other, whose so far away, and in your imagination it can be so real. And maybe the anticipation in the hours of travel before the meeting. Well, I guess it just hit me when I was thinking about this, and I hope you don't mind. I really enjoyed the song. Thank you.
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Post by brillo69 on Jun 11, 2004 1:43:11 GMT
Anyway, after I heard the news and was listening to this album, I thought about the two of you wanting to meet. The idea of closing your eyes and sending your spirit to the other, whose so far away, and in your imagination it can be so real. And maybe the anticipation in the hours of travel before the meeting. Well, I guess it just hit me when I was thinking about this, and I hope you don't mind. That's quite alright.
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Sven Golly
Moving
"In the night you hide from the madman you're longing to be"
Posts: 800
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Post by Sven Golly on Feb 17, 2005 0:30:59 GMT
I'll revisit this later, as I do have many theories on this topic. I've had MANY discussions about it. I think it's a good thread.....
I can even tie KB into this. But it was really the angel "Gabriel" that made this happen. There are so many personal reasons one is attracted to another. I have a great quote for this... to be filled in later. How about discussing not oly attraction, but types of love and how does one know they are in love?
I could go on here, but maybe later. This is probably the strangest thing that has ever happened to me. It single-handedly confirmed my faith in some sense of destiny and karma. But for now, I'll let Kate explain. I have strung a few lines important to me. I can fill in the blanks later.
As the people here grow colder... only tragedy allows the release of love and grief never normally seen. You never really understood me, you never really tried.
This house is as old as I am, this house knows all I have done. They come with their weather hanging 'round them, but can't knock my door down!
All young gentle dreams drowning in life's grief, can you hang on me? You might not, not think so now, but just you wait and see--someone will come to help you.
Hello, I know that you've been feeling tired, I know that you're unhappy. I bring you love and deeper understanding. Tomorrow was another day, the morning found me miles away, with still a million things to say.
It lay buried here. It lay deep inside me. It's so deep I don't think that I can speak about it. It could take me all of my life. It wouldn't take me long to tell you how to find it, to tell you where we'll meet.
Mmm, just take any line: "Comfort me with apples for I am sick of love.”<br> I kept it in a cage, watched it weeping, but I made it stay. But now I've started learning how, I leave it open
You come walking into this room like you're walking into my arms.
Now hounds of love are hunting... I've always been a coward, and I don't know what's good for me. Don't let me go! Hold me down! It's coming for me through the trees.
Is there so much hate for the ones we love? Tell me, we both matter, don't we? You, it's you and me. It's you and me won't be unhappy. Do you want to hear about the deal that I'm making? You, it's you and me. And if I only could, I'd make a deal with God, and I'd get him to swap our places. Be running up that road, be running up that hill, with no problems.
And I'll do it for you, I'll be the Rose of Sharon for you... Ooh I'll come in a hurricane for you, I'll do it for you. He'll look at me and smile, I'll understand. Hey there Michael, do you really love me?
I give you my, you give me your, you give me your joy, and whatever happens what really matters? It's all we've got, isn't that enough? What would I do without you?
We thought it would be so hard, but it wasn't... it wasn't easy, though!
Ooh here's the constellation of the heart. Who said anything about it hurting? It's gonna be beautiful, it's gonna be wonderful, it's gonna be paradise.
We're building a house of the future together...
I'll give you more thoughts on attraction later, Sven. But for now, I think the x-rated KB was enough. [/quote][/size] I dug this topic up for various reasons, one being how it relates to me. But I'm particularly interested in how the brain functions in anticipatory thought... how judgement is influenced by varying emotions and the influence of specific stimuli - not the least of which being words. The beginning of this thread was satisfyingly thought provoking. In that it became side-tracked prematurely, it seems like a good chance to continue this discourse oncourse.... Oh course! ;D
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Post by Xanadu on Feb 17, 2005 2:30:30 GMT
Why quote me then? Or was that to remind me to find that quote for you about love and attraction?
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Sven Golly
Moving
"In the night you hide from the madman you're longing to be"
Posts: 800
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Post by Sven Golly on Feb 17, 2005 3:17:55 GMT
Sorry Zan. I should have been more specific. Yes I did want you to persue some of what you started here. Also I found some of the following themes and comments to be most intriguing as talking points. Exploring each of them would be of interest to me and maybe to others. I'll revisit this later, as I do have many theories on this topic. I've had MANY discussions about it.
There are so many personal reasons one is attracted to another. I have a great quote for this... to be filled in later. How about discussing not only attraction, but types of love and how does one know they are in love?
I could go on here, but maybe later. This is probably the strangest thing that has ever happened to me. It single-handedly confirmed my faith in some sense of destiny and karma. But for now, I'll let Kate explain. I have strung a few lines important to me. I can fill in the blanks later.
All young gentle dreams drowning in life's grief, can you hang on me? You might not, not think so now, but just you wait and see--someone will come to help you.
I know that you're unhappy. I bring you love and deeper understanding.
It lay buried here. It lay deep inside me. It's so deep I don't think that I can speak about it.
You come walking into this room like you're walking into my arms.
Now hounds of love are hunting... I've always been a coward, and I don't know what's good for me.
I'll give you more thoughts on attraction later, Sven. [/size]
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Post by Xanadu on Feb 17, 2005 21:00:00 GMT
First off, I like Kundera's (Unbearable Lightness of Being) angle:
"Why couldn't he find it, say, in a woman's gait or culinary caprices or artistic taste? To be sure, the millionth part dissimilarity is present in all areas of human existence, but in all other areas other than sex it is exposed and needs no one to discover it...”<br> “Only in sexuality does the millionth part dissimilarity become precious, because, not accessible in public, it must be conquered.
...”the desire to discover and appropriate that one millionth part; he saw it as the core of his obsession. He was not obsessed with women; he was obsessed with what in each of them is unimaginable, obsessed, in other words, with the one millionth part that makes a woman dissimilar to others of her sex.”<br> I don't think this applies only to women however. If you subscribe to this idea, this could be a start of any attraction.
By finding the object of my attraction more interesting each day, I learn more about myself.
An attraction can be any number of instantaneous connections. But it is the consistant new connections the maintain the attraction.
For example in a basic sense:
He sees a woman enter a room and likes her walk and shape. She sits in front of him. He studies her form and finds it attractive.
It could end here... but... she tosses her hair and combs through it gently with her fingers... he catches a hint of her perfume. More attraction. He becomes interested in more of this stimulation. He watches her more closely.
Now, it could end. She could not have noticed him in the slightest. If he is lucky, she did, and the feelings are mutual. This may lead them to want a more personal contact. He speaks to her, she likes his voice and laugh... he likes her smile.
And on and on. For each person it is different. The fragrance reminds him of a place he likes. His voice sounds like a singer or start she likes.
This is all initial contact. But what if there is no personal chemisty. The next phase leading to the knowledge begins. The search for the millionth part dissimilarity in that person. If you are intrigued enough and equally, these connections continue. Then, you may attribute romantic coincidences to these connections.
Now, I have a few thoughts on fate. Kundera brings forth the idea of fortuities, which seem like the events that some would consider “signs,” especially those who attach the mystical to such events. Having experienced such events, I would either dismiss them as coincidences when it was good, or signs when my luck was bad.
Although Kundera essentially believed we make our own destiny, when guided by beauty in life, a person could transform a series of fortuitous occurrences, or coincidences, into a romantic motif, which then forms a composition in the person’s life. Regarding these events significantly and working them in to our life can add a level of beauty and poetry. Seeing them as coincidence or fate is really irrelevant, since they are essentially patterns that have the potential to elevate what could be an ordinary life.
Not quite sure if this is exactly where you were going, but I believe you can attribute these theories to any subject you find attractive. Even why you still find yourself interested in Kate Bush's music.
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Post by Adey on Feb 17, 2005 22:05:50 GMT
This is a fascinating and thoroughly learned piece of work. I could find nothing here to contradict even if I wanted to. These thoughts into what is indeed the chemistry of attraction, have fired off insight and understanding.. (sorry I sound like a College Lecturer)
Excellent Xan, and thanks.
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Post by Al Truest on Feb 17, 2005 22:21:03 GMT
Than you Zan. I find this subject fascinating and baffling. The extensive thought and research gives us so much to think about intellectually. However, the mystery and resulting emotions often take our head out of the game. Many of my comments here may be anecdotal, but I have some theories and ideas myself. I used to think the perpetuation of species - procreation - was the impetus for persuing a partner/s. It still may be, albeit mostly on a subconcious level. But as human society has evolved, I believe that the way we look at relationships and how they are started needs to evolve as well. The more complex we become the more our needs change. Validation and purpose have become, in my view, paramount to fuel the chemical chain of events preceding attraction. Sex, as you indirectly point out in your following comments, has become more of a commodity. One that we're no longer sure has the value it once had to validate or provide a sense of purpose and worthiness. "Why couldn't he find it, say, in a woman's gait or culinary caprices or artistic taste? To be sure, the millionth part dissimilarity is present in all areas of human existence, but in all other areas other than sex it is exposed and needs no one to discover it...”<br> “Only in sexuality does the millionth part dissimilarity become precious, because, not accessible in public, it must be conquered. ...”the desire to discover and appropriate that one millionth part; he saw it as the core of his obsession. He was not obsessed with women; he was obsessed with what in each of them is unimaginable, obsessed, in other words, with the one millionth part that makes a woman dissimilar to others of her sex.”<br> I don't think this applies only to women however. If you subscribe to this idea, this could be a start of any attraction. A bit Freudian to me. It is, I'm sure, presumptious of me to make the distinction between the goal of satisfaction with that of validation and purpose. Maybe we're saying the same thing (and Kundera) from a different perspective. I think physically we seek euphoria intially and ultimately a kindred connection as our lottery. Good point. An exercise I shall try. Can personal chemistry, do you think, arise in the absence of physical stimuli. i.e. through a fate connection or just the connection of a spirit or even words on a page? - I like what you've added in this following quote although I disagree with some of the assertions: I don't buy this. Without hope and mystery I don't know if I trust myself or humanity to shape my destiny. I believe that certain people share a profound propensity to validate each other. A greater purpose to life is something we can't always make by ourselves. Why? It matters to me that the level of import is elevated by the affirmation of fate. I still see a distinction. Yes this is a good starting point for discussion. I hope I don't come across as artibtrary. 'Just that I want to try to understand as much as I can. Put things in perspective, I guess. Thanks again. More comments here please.
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Post by Al Truest on Feb 17, 2005 22:29:59 GMT
This is a fascinating and thoroughly learned piece of work. I could find nothing here to contradict even if I wanted to. These insights into what is indeed the chemistry of attraction, have fired off insight and understanding.. Excellent Xan, and thanks. Thanks Adey. Now I sound like an ass. (arse ) I think Zan won't mind me pushing the issues whether I've got any point to make or not.
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Post by Xanadu on Feb 17, 2005 22:45:52 GMT
More comments here please. I am just working on these myself. So, I suppose these are theories I am considering, but don't necessarily subscribe to. As a Libra, I find validity in all arguements (most) and try to take the parts I can relate to. I may have worded a previous statements in a confusing manner: In reference to Kundera's themes of sexuality, I believe it is the act of intimacy that shares the dissimiliarity, not the act of sex itself. That is the difference between the obsession with women and the quest. The character's quest is to gain understanding of his attraction to women by sharing that intimacy... which he associates with sex. "Having experienced such events, I would either dismiss them as coincidences when it was good, or signs when my luck was bad..." in the past. When I began to believe in the patterns, I was touched by some beauty and mystery that I hadn't experiences before. Now, I becomes a quest for understanding the patterns. "Seeing them as coincidence or fate is really irrelevant, since they are essentially patterns that have the potential to elevate what could be an ordinary life." What is irrelevant is the origin of the event, be it mere coincidence or mystical fate, either way, the patterns are what I find fascinating. I have no desire to argue my points.. they are only thoughts and theories from discussions and books I have read that I allow to move me. There is no right answer. And, personally... I am highly susceptible to romantic motif in literature.
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Post by Xanadu on Feb 17, 2005 22:51:48 GMT
Thanks Adey. Now I sound like an ass. (arse ) I think Zan won't mind me pushing the issues whether I've got any point to make or not. "Arse" is more refined for this discussion, don't you think? ;D ;D
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RA
Reaching Out
Posts: 216
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Post by RA on Feb 17, 2005 22:53:15 GMT
Sven thanks for digging this topic up - it's an interesting read.
My perspection on this has changed recently as I've linked with someone I feel I was destined to meet and I didnt think it would happen twice in my life. I do believe that we occasionally find true soul mates (this can be a lover/friend or a friend). Some people are lucky to find their 'mate' early in life and live happily ever after, however, I now think it's quite rare and sadly some people make do with the first person who hits their lust buttons rather than really find that truest and purest of affections - unconditional love.
I'm now in my mid 40s and had lots of boyfriends when I was younger. One day though, just by chance, I'd been invited to someone's house for dinner and they told me they'd invited someone along. I remember him walking up the hill to the house - long dark brown hair and looked familiar (although I'd never met him). I was unimpressed but we instantly bonded. There was no tension or doubt at all and not an ounce of fear, just a 'coming home' and a peace inside.
There was not a happy ending but the bond will remain on both sides for a lifetime. Immaturity destructed the two of us when we became involved with drugs and then life took us on different paths as we changed and grew up.
Now lust is a different thing, but I have grown tired of it and think I only had an interest in pure lust for a short period of time. Sexual attraction for me personally comes through the turn on of being 'in love'. One just doesnt happen without the other, the mechanics of sex with someone you don't have 'feelings' for is ultimately quite unpleasant. I think that's something more unique to women in general, but it's clear cut for me.
So, LOVE - back to that. It's a total pain as it's so rare. It's often unrequited and it's seldom easy unless you are just very lucky and you find your match. When you do, he may be married, he may be ill, he may be far away - the odds don't make things simple. When you have it, you fear losing it, when you don't have it you fear it will never come.
I hope life allows me again to find someone to 'come home to'. In the meantime, I'm not going to take anything less as I've experienced something more.
Love and luck to all
RA
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Post by Xanadu on Feb 17, 2005 22:57:45 GMT
This is a fascinating and thoroughly learned piece of work. I could find nothing here to contradict even if I wanted to. These thoughts into what is indeed the chemistry of attraction, have fired off insight and understanding.. ( sorry I sound like a College Lecturer) Excellent Xan, and thanks. Thanks Adey. I'm glad it read well for you, since I am always concerned. I'm flattered about the College Lecturer reference, I respond to that sort of support. ;D
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Sven Golly
Moving
"In the night you hide from the madman you're longing to be"
Posts: 800
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Post by Sven Golly on Feb 17, 2005 23:02:26 GMT
"Arse" is more refined for this discussion, don't you think? ;D ;D He's a posterior however you pronounce it. ;D ;D I was hoping you'd call his hand on the validation theory. Agreed, it may be a motive or even a need, but not necessarily a healthy place to build a relationship.
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Sven Golly
Moving
"In the night you hide from the madman you're longing to be"
Posts: 800
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Post by Sven Golly on Feb 17, 2005 23:03:27 GMT
I respond to that sort of support. ;D Validation is important.
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