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Post by Adey on Jan 28, 2004 0:51:46 GMT
You may have discussed this recently. If so, forgive me, I'm new.
I noted Lori's comments about not playing Red Shoes much, and it reminded me that many people I know who enjoy KB, have also said something similar. I wonder why this is?
Of course it is true that the appreciation of any music is subjective, but I genuinely struggle to see the problem with the Red Shoes. It is perhaps a touch lighter than some of her work and a lot more relaxed, but its crammed with great stuff. Is it the appearance of so many high profile guest artists: Beck/Clapton/Lenny Henry(!)/Prince etc? Do people think this dilutes the essential magic of the KB vision?
I've always loved it - Song of Solomon (esp the "I'll do it for you" section with the Trio Bulgarka), Moments of Pleasure (how can you not be moved by it), Rubberband Girl, Lilly etc etc. The whole album was a welcome change of pace and feel from the intensity of the Surreal World.
Most reviled seems to be Constellation of the Heart, and I adore its humour.
So what do other members think? Am I wrong about this perception of peoples attitudes to the Red Shoes? Am I right but for other reasons?
Help me out on this folks, if you'll be so kind. I want a full report!
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Post by brillo69 on Jan 28, 2004 1:47:25 GMT
I find this album to be very tricky to get into,unlike her other albums.i think that,for me at least,that this is due to the way that the album was/is engineered. for a start it has this kind of "unorganic" feel to the mix unlike her earlier work,which,in many respects have a almost live feel. as for the songs themself there are plenty of standout tracks. for me these have to be and so is love,moments of pleasure,lily,song of solomon,the red shoes,and top of the city. some of the other songs tend to be either a little repetitive,or cheesy i.e why should i love you? this is what i think,it's not a major essay,but i'm not a man who can type a a earth shattering report.
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Post by ~ Rocket's Tail ~ on Jan 28, 2004 1:51:53 GMT
Is Lenny Henry's participation actually humourous? Does he sing on it, or just speak?
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Post by strabley on Jan 28, 2004 2:26:44 GMT
I've always adored the Red Shoes! I fell in love with it a lot quicker than The Sensual World and have always liked it better. That fact that it is a little bit lighter hearted always endeared me to it. Sometimes humour is the best therapy. I think it's more serious than some people may think though. Every song has a deep message, and I don't think it's any less serious than say, The Kick Inside which also has some lighthearted tracks, like Kite or Them heavy People (which is delightfully lighthearted considering it is a song about getting deeper )
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Post by brillo69 on Jan 28, 2004 2:56:06 GMT
i find it rather ironic for a song to have both prince and lenny henry on it at the same time,especially as lenny is well known for doing impressions of prince.("i've got prince on my butt") maybe kate used him on the track for this reason? prince probably wasn't avaliable for the backing vocals. who knows?
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Post by Adey on Jan 28, 2004 11:32:24 GMT
Hi R.T.
Yes, I'm sure he sings a few lines in his best Theo P Wilderbeast voice! I recall KB and Lenny appearing on the Aspel show when Red Shoes was released. KB was interviewed briefly and commented that Lenny had a good voice (I think the Gaffaweb site has a full transcript of the interview). Then she sang Moments..
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Post by Sto on Jan 28, 2004 21:00:22 GMT
I've always loved it - Song of Solomon (esp the "I'll do it for you" section with the Trio Bulgarka) This song, and especially the part you mention, is my favourite Kate song! (see my signiture! ) "The Red Shoes" is actually my favourite Kate album, even though I don't think it's her best (that would probably be "Hounds of Love" for its sheer genius and originality). I love the sincerity and introspection of "The Red Shoes". Kate's vocals have a vulnerability which conveys exactly what she feels. Not to mention the fact that it features "The Song Of Solomon", "Lily" and "You're The One", three of my favourite Kate songs. The album does have weaker moments though - "Why Should I Love You" is the only Kate song that I can actually say I don't like (but I blame Prince! ). I do like "Constellation of the Heart", but I just think the production sounds a bit outdated now for some reason. She really lets you visualise the "Captain" part of the song though! I wonder how much Kate will have moved on from the sound of this album, her 'most recent' one?
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Post by Adey on Jan 28, 2004 22:03:06 GMT
Sto', lets hope we get the chance to hear how the KB sound has changed very soon..
I had clocked your signature. I was pleased that someone had used it
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Post by Lori on Jan 28, 2004 23:16:49 GMT
I've never quite explained my feelings of 'TRS' album before but I think it's about time I did. You's might slate be for it but it's just how I honsetly feel, here goes.... I think 'Song of Solomon' & 'Constellation of the Heart' (which btw, when I first heard it, thought was 'Constellation of the House', LoL) are great!! Ok so don't shoot me down for this, but I find the likes of Rubberband Girl, Lily, The Red Shoes, Eat the Music all to easy. It's so hard to explain myself but I don't feel the emotion and mystery that I do with all the other albums. This is just my opinnion and clearly loads of you love the album which is great, but I just see the songs I've listed above to be effortless and more of a kareoke sing-along type thing. I'm not knocking Kate at all, gosh I have 10 of her albums and to dislike only 1 must say something. Just 'TRS', no matter how hard I try, I just can't come round. You'll've read my explaination and will probably be thinking "what the hell is she on about" or "can't be much of a Kate fan" but it's just how I feel. Not saying it's a 'bad' album because it can't be... so many people love it. Just it's not for me. And how I've worded it too is terrible, just found it really difficult. As questions if you like, it may help to clear it up a bit
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Post by Adey on Jan 29, 2004 2:09:29 GMT
Hey Lori thats Ok, don't beat yourself up about this. Perhaps it was unfair of me to mention your name. Most of my friends with KB collections have said something similar and for much the same reasons that you have CLEARLY outlined.
Maybe the issue is one of instant gratification, by which I mean one hears a record and its great straight away, or certainly easy to listen to. With some exceptions (and for me KB is the most notable) these are the recordings that don't stay with you too long after the initial appreciation. One never truly loves them.
However, I have found that if you acquire a recording that you have to work damned hard to get into, almost like it has to be learned, then it will stay with you for a long time. It may even become part of your psyche. For me, this was my experience with The Dreaming, which I once dismissed as "just too much like hard work" (esp side 1). Now I know that I will never be without it. I am still (after 14/15 years?) only just getting into the Surreal World, and I know that will horrify many KB fans. In many ways, because she is so challenging an artist, perhaps some of us have come to expect that this will be the case with a new KB album. That we might have to learn to love it. Perhaps also we might therefore think less of her recordings if they are immediately accessible? Hell, I don't really know - us people are very complex and we're sure not all the same. "We humans got it all, we perform the miracles..."
Absolutely no-one could doubt your immaculate credentials as a Kate Bush fan, just because one album doesn't float your boat. This board, created by you I believe, your new KB website, all speak volumes. If there are any fanatics that say otherwise, just say stuff 'em!
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Post by Lori on Jan 29, 2004 8:07:54 GMT
Hey Lori thats Ok, don't beat yourself up about this. Perhaps it was unfair of me to mention your name. Hey don't mention it Adey. Course it was fine to mention my name Anyway I'm glad to have shared that, it'll be interesting to see the response.
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Post by Banshee on Feb 6, 2004 14:50:18 GMT
Hey Lori! You're not alone!! I feel the same way about TRS. I like a few songs, Song of Solomon being my favorite track on the album, then Lily, Moments, And So is Love and Big Stripey Lie... but the rest just doesn't do it for me either. It's too 'flat', too simple, too much 'pop'. No matter how many times I try, these songs just won't grow on me! At first it almost felt like betraying Kate! but then I thought it was the first one of 8 albums that I didn't like and then only half of it... so that's a pretty amazing accomplishment!
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Sven Golly
Moving
"In the night you hide from the madman you're longing to be"
Posts: 800
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Post by Sven Golly on Feb 6, 2004 15:10:45 GMT
Hey Lori! You're not alone!! I feel the same way about TRS. I like a few songs, Song of Solomon being my favorite track on the album, then Lily, Moments, And So is Love and Big Stripey Lie... So let me get this straight, you've admitted to liking five songs on the album, yet you just can't call it a success? Maybe your expectations are higher than hers. Or you just don't get it. Hmm...maybe you just don't get it. ;D
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Post by Adey on Feb 6, 2004 15:16:08 GMT
I am happy to read Lori & Banshee's comments, if for no other reason than it confirms my thoughts on the way the album is sometimes perceived. Perhaps Banshee hit the nail on the head when she referred to it as a pop album (I am paraphrasing). Thats great and I'm not going to sit here at my PC and say "Its fantastic so there must be something with you".
I am reminded of a song lyric by Bill Nelson (Be Bop Deluxe):-
"I speak to you through electrical language, sometimes you hear me when our frequencies meet..."
Thanks to everyone who has aired their thoughts on this - I really appreciate it.
Now, who can tell me why I have so much trouble appreciating The Surreal World.....
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Post by strabley on Feb 6, 2004 15:46:07 GMT
. Now, who can tell me why I have so much trouble appreciating The Surreal World..... I think I can tell you ;D I too have not really fully gotten into the album (but at least I know the title of it just kidding! but it is called The Sensual World) When it first came out it was a bit of a disappointment to me. A little too, uh, equidistant between precious and removed. That seems two opposites, but it has been (holy sh@#!!!! almost 15 years?! ) this long and I really still can't put my finger on what distances me from that album sometimes. The Red Shoes is rich by comparison I always felt. Even the pop sounding songs are lavish and inventive, whereas on the Sensual World the songs seem more routine for Kate. (I will get lynched for this, but I always felt "Reaching Out" seemed like a song someone else would record to parody Kate) You know what? I better shut up before I get kicked off this board! Just for the record, I DO love The Sensual World, REALLY! I just love it less than The Red Shoes. Kind regards, Sheila Strabley CVP Save The Red Shoes' rep committee.
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