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Post by Sto on Jul 12, 2004 14:25:53 GMT
Sto', to me these sentiments are about pro-active and sometimes selfless giving. I'll post something on each song board. Maybe we can all draw some conclusions. Al', I can't locate your other posts on this subject - do you remember if you posted them? I'm still intrigued to know your thoughts!
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Post by Adey on Jul 13, 2004 1:42:55 GMT
Sto, I don't know if you caught his message, but Al's away for the next 10 days or so, getting a business venture off the ground. He said he may pop in, but I wouldn't rely on it.
I'm sure he'll respond when he returns.
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Post by Sto on Jul 13, 2004 9:42:35 GMT
Ohhh, no I didn't catch that! Thanks Adey. It always goes a bit quiet on the board when Al's away doesn't it?
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Post by Adey on Jul 13, 2004 10:56:55 GMT
LOL. Yes Sto, it seems that way sometimes.
I do my best to fill in when it's quiet, but I can never bring myself to write nonsense posts or frippery just to keeps things moving. Posts like this one infact!
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Post by Xanadu on Jul 13, 2004 21:07:28 GMT
LOL. Yes Sto, it seems that way sometimes. I do my best to fill in when it's quiet, but I can never bring myself to write nonsense posts or frippery just to keeps things moving. Posts like this one infact! I wouldn't exactly call this nonsense Adey. But I agree. It is quiet with him gone, but you both are doing great to keep it going. I don't think he ever did post his thoughts. Again, these boards were dormant for a while, and I even deleted some of my posts (after saving them personally) due to lack of interest. I'll have to dig them up. And when Al comes back, you'll have to be on him. I'm sure he'll be happy to oblige.
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Post by Sto on Sept 13, 2004 21:19:12 GMT
Al', I can't locate your other posts on this subject - do you remember if you posted them? I'm still intrigued to know your thoughts! Re-bump now Al's back! 'I'm still waiting'
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Post by CopyOfCpt (just say Cor) on Jul 4, 2005 12:51:37 GMT
<snip> whereas Kate's is more like, well I realize this is crude, but for the sake of summation, Kate's is more like "Shut up and @$#% me!" <snip> I'd like to offer a different view on this song: What if She is not singing this line from her perspective, but from the perspective of the partner in a relation. The interpretation could be that She offers the partner with a choice. This line "I don't want your bullshit, yeah, I just want your sexuality" could be a quote coming from the partner telling her that. She offers him the choice Solomon offered the two women claiming that the baby was theirs: You can have half each upon which the real mother basically says that the other woman can have the baby as she cannot bear to have the child cut into halves. As She cannot split herselve up (just sexuality none of the bullshit) She basically says: "have me or don't. You can't expect me to forget all my human emotions and problems because this would reduce me to an empty shell, a rubber doll... Take me including my bullshit, then the sexuality will come with the package". Looking at the text this way she isn't saying "shut up and do me", but "if you want to do me, you'll have to take the bullshit I'm carrying with me as well". This is much more in line with the overall theme of TRS. To me she comes out as somebody with multiple problems: She feels exploited (eat the music), she feels abused (song of solomon) vunourable (Lily), she has a lot of problems and looks back at (the moments of pleasure). I could be wrong though... I'm not a shrink, nor am I Mrs. Bush.
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Post by tannis on Nov 26, 2007 17:33:08 GMT
In the beginning, Kate wore a seductive leotard and sang with sexual intensity in the warm room... (Solitary) Fans saw her as a sex symbol. They demanded autographs, record signings, a pseudonym... The Record Industry demanded repeat performances... Kate obliged... Then came THE DREAMING...
I think TSOS is about her relationship with the Music Industry/Media/Fans, etc. who wanted her to be their 'Shulammite' sex symbol... She satisfied their 'Song of Solomon' ... The Record Industry/Fans didn't want the dreaming 'bullshit'; they just wanted the 'sexuality,' the 'poetry in motion' ... and of course this woman's singing can take any line and sign it with a kiss! ... "Don't want your bullshit, yeah...
Just want your sexuality" ... So this song of solomon gives exactly that... "I'll do it for you... I'll come in a hurricane for you" ...
This SOS 'plays' any sexual fantasy role you-the-fan want it to, to please YOU! ... But behind the veneer lies a vulnerable and exploited "wop bam boom," sick of FANtasy love... tired of this bullshit and crying out for the genuine rapturous and spiritual comfort of The Song Of Solomon!
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 3, 2008 10:34:59 GMT
I think you've got something there, tannis. Kate's relationship to her fans probably does have some bearing on the meaning of this song. After all, Kate is singing this song to us, her fans, so she must be aware of this.
I think the meaning of the lines:
Don't want your bullshit Just want your sexuality
cuts both ways though. I can see how it could be read as a man saying that to a woman ... rather than wanting the whole female package; or equally it could be a fan saying "I bought your record because of your purported sexy image, so I just want that rather than all the other weirdness that you bring into it". I can see Kate (or the female character in the song) being exasperated with that, if that's all they want.
Yet on the other hand, I'm sure that men bring a certain of baggage into a relationship and I can imagine that at times an exasperated female might think "look why don't we just put all that aside and just celebrate our sexuality for a change". Of course, I can't bring that same perspective to Kate's relationship with her fans - she's obviously not asking them for their sexuality... They would just be letting way too much weirdness in!
--Paul--
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Post by tannis on Apr 3, 2008 21:35:08 GMT
Yes Paul, I agree, the meaning of those two lines does cut both ways, and the song can suggest the woman thinking "look why don't we just put all that aside and just celebrate our sexuality for a change." And how we'd wished to live in the sensual world You don't need words - just one kiss, then another...----- "Has anybody else noticed the run-out messages on the new 'The Red Shoes' 7" vinyl release? On side A it's 'ONE FOR THE ARCHERS'..."gaffa.org/moments/2_2f.htmlKB's interest in archery (as shown in photography, and the sleeve and video for the 1985 Running Up That Hill) is well noted.Famous Archers: TRISTAN & ROBINTSOS: "I'll be Isolde or Marion for you..." Maid Marian was originally a character in May Games festivities and is sometimes associated with the Queen or Lady of May of May Day. She became associated with Robin Hood in this context, as Robin Hood became a central figure in May Day, associated as it was with the forest and archery.Marian is likely derived from the French tradition of a shepherdess named Marion and her shepherd lover Robin (not Robin Hood). The best known example of this tradition is Adam de la Halle's Le Jeu de Robin et Marion, circa 1283. Iseult (alternatively Isolde, Yseult, Isode, Isoude, Isotta) is the name of several characters in the Arthurian story of Tristan and Iseult. The most prominent is Iseult of Ireland, wife of Mark of Cornwall and adulterous lover of Sir Tristan. The love story of Tristan and Isolde is one of the most famous in literature. It tells of a passionate and illicit love born of a potion that the two drank by mistake. Because Isolde was pledged to marry Tristan's uncle, King Mark of Cornwall, their love could bring the young couple no happiness; instead it condemned them to suffering, guilt, exile and a tragic end. In the BĂ©roul retelling of the legend: "Tristan was an excellent archer, skilled with the bow. Governal had taken one from a forester, and he had brought two feathered and barbed arrows. Tristan took the bow and set out through the woods. He saw a buck, drew his bow, and shot, striking the animal directly in the right side. It cried out, leapt up into the air, and fell back to the ground. Tristan brought it back with him." see more:katebush.proboards6.com/index.c.cgi?board=houndsoflove&action=display&thread=1059691842&page=2
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Apr 4, 2008 0:26:25 GMT
Very interesting take on this song, guys. I'd never thought about it relating to her fans, but I have always felt it's quite a sad song... it actually almost always makes me tear up. Like Tannis said so eloquently, "But behind the veneer lies a vulnerable and exploited "wop bam boom," sick of FANtasy love... tired of this bullshit and crying out for the genuine rapturous and spiritual comfort of The Song Of Solomon!" The whole of TRS is such a very sad but also very hopeful album, to me. Oh and I just read a version of the legend of Tristan and Iseult... The drinking of love and death always reminded me of Houdini, and the connection of the two characters that goes beyond this mortal form.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 4, 2008 0:53:31 GMT
Very interesting take on this song, guys. I'd never thought about it relating to her fans, but I have always felt it's quite a sad song... it actually almost always makes me tear up. Like Tannis said so eloquently, "But behind the veneer lies a vulnerable and exploited "wop bam boom," sick of FANtasy love... tired of this bullshit and crying out for the genuine rapturous and spiritual comfort of The Song Of Solomon!" The whole of TRS is such a very sad but also very hopeful album, to me. Oh and I just read a version of the legend of Tristan and Iseult... The drinking of love and death always reminded me of Houdini, and the connection of the two characters that goes beyond this mortal form. Kate is referring to Tristan and Iseult I think. She mentions Isolde, which is a variation of the name Isuelt. (edit: I just noticed that tannis already mentioned this).I'm also wondering whether the character's expectations of "sexuality" may be at odds with her lovers' expectations. We don't necessarily always want exactly the same thing at the same time. That's not necessarily just a "male vs female" thing either.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 4, 2008 1:04:36 GMT
TSOS: "I'll be Isolde or Marion for you..." Marian is likely derived from the French tradition of a shepherdess named Marion and her shepherd lover Robin (not Robin Hood). The best known example of this tradition is Adam de la Halle's Le Jeu de Robin et Marion, circa 1283. It's interesting - it's only just recently in analysing this song that I've made an interesting discovery. I know a Dutch woman called Marjon who used to call herself Isolde on-line. It's only just occured to me now that Marjon is the Dutch variant of Marion. I guess I've have to ask her if she's familiar with The Song of Solomon
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Apr 4, 2008 1:21:09 GMT
Kate is referring to Tristan and Iseult I think. She mentions Isolde, which is a variation of the name Isuelt. (edit: I just noticed that tannis already mentioned this). Yes, I know- I was just commenting on the story, and other ways it seemed to connect to Kate's work for me.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 4, 2008 2:09:57 GMT
Very interesting take on this song, guys. I'd never thought about it relating to her fans, but I have always felt it's quite a sad song... it actually almost always makes me tear up. Lots of Kate songs make me tear up, but not necessarily in a sad way. I often picture Kate singing the songs when I'm listening to them, which can make for an intense listening experience. When the lines are particularly meaningful to me I sometimes imagine that I am Kate singing them, if that makes any sense. A song like The Hounds Of Love is particularly exhilarating and overwhelming when I imagine it that way, and I certainly identify with the subject matter of that song. It's kind of like making a deal with God sometimes I just have to mentally swap places with her to really get the most out a song. I'd like to stress that this is purely imagination - I'm not some kind of drag queen! So of course I've already imagined The Song Of Solomon from multiple points of view, but mostly hers. It's curious, because if I'm listening to a male songwriter (like Dylan, or Bowie or Costello) I don't necessarily feel like I need to see through their eyes, but with Kate I feel compelled to. I don't know if that is because she is female, or if it's because she is Kate. --Paul--
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