stev0
Moving
He's an utter creep and he drives me 'round the bend
Posts: 517
|
Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 1:00:13 GMT
DISCLAIMER: Every post I make should be read as starting with "my opinion is that..."
Also, unless someone blatantly states the opposite (ie, "It is a known fact that..."), I read everyone else's posts as starting the same way.
As I've often stated here, I am an agnostic - I believe that one can never really know, that any interpretation is as valid as any other (or, as I like to think it, each interpretation is equally invalid, and this is where YOUR (not anyone here in specific; I mean everyone) opinion falls apart, whatever it is).
I enjoy bursting bubbles, smashing unrealistic dreams, and dismounting high horses. I don't do it because I feel I'm better than anyone else (I'll be the first to admit I'm not nearly as bright as most of the people here), but because I have a very strong commitment to Reality and The Truth. THOSE are MY gods.
|
|
|
Post by Al Truest on Aug 17, 2005 1:58:16 GMT
DISCLAIMER: Every post I make should be read as starting with "my opinion is that..." Also, unless someone blatantly states the opposite (ie, "It is a known fact that..."), I read everyone else's posts as starting the same way. As I've often stated here, I am an agnostic - I believe that one can never really know, that any interpretation is as valid as any other (or, as I like to think it, each interpretation is equally invalid, and this is where YOUR (not anyone here in specific; I mean everyone) opinion falls apart, whatever it is). I enjoy bursting bubbles, smashing unrealistic dreams, and dismounting high horses. I don't do it because I feel I'm better than anyone else (I'll be the first to admit I'm not nearly as bright as most of the people here), but because I have a very strong commitment to Reality and The Truth. THOSE are MY gods. Fair enough. I just tend to write like I talk, and find unqualified suppositions to be careless. However, I will bear that in mind. BTW I have thick skin. To have a commitment to the truth means there should be a search going on. Debunking everyone else gets you no closer. In fact the truth is, in my opinion, that when you trivialize, mock or deride someone else's opinion, you push the truth further back. Personal truth and universal truth are two different animals. Being agnostic just seems so lazy. It is my opinion that math and science can unlock mysteries of our worlds. There are formulas and codes that you are unqualified to deny. I don't claim to know them as fact. But, when these theories are only only used as tools to describe real events, then they are above your ability to burst, for the represent concepts. You can not destroy a concept. I don't believe in a traditional God. I do think that there is a collective consciousness of all the energies in the universe. Prayer or faith or karma or goodwill can all be a source of power for those that can draw from this matrix that is so elusively sought after. God, nirvana, peace - whatever you want to call it is a destination that may have a separate path for every living soul. You will never find yours if you don't start looking. Deny what you see and feel at your own peril. God won't strike you down but failure to achieve peace and goodwill is a self made hell. Here are a few facts that I believe are undeniable as search tools: * Evolution is not theory but fact * There is order and predictability to the universe * There is a collective consciousness that we can all tap in to in one fashion or another regardless of belief or the lack thereof * There are realms that transcends the material world. Metaphysical planes are as real as dreams. These states can be achieved wherein peace is found. There are keys to unlock the mysteries of the universe. We are not responsible for knowing all the details; but, our only reward or consequence is in the journey we plot and execute that will determine what state of enlightenment and peace we can achieve for ourselves and our living friends. Thereafter one can hope that there is a oneness with the universe or a peace that is everlasting. My chosen route is altruism. When it is done right, there is no greater peace or reward in the present. And it exaults the spirit to the highest state.
|
|
stev0
Moving
He's an utter creep and he drives me 'round the bend
Posts: 517
|
Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 2:28:37 GMT
If there is a common collective consciousness, if there was indeed a true path to true happiness and enlightment, people wouldn't still be playing "My god can beat up your god" to this day.
If people would just stop and realize there IS (probably) nothing outside the material realm, there IS no pattern to the Universe, and there IS no "meaning of life", we'd stop having wars, terrorism, suicide bombers, and all that other junk.
btw, I'm NOT an athiest and get annoyed when people call me that (I realize no one here has, I'm just mentioning it). Saying "There definitely is no god" is as stupid as saying "There definitely is a god."
Personal philosophy: I think we should all get as much enjoyment out of life as we can. Think of the long range implications of what you're doing, and, above all, DON'T HURT OTHER PEOPLE. Of all the people I know, I'm probably the most content with my life right now. OK, there's one rather major area, but that can fill its own thread.
|
|
|
Post by Al Truest on Aug 17, 2005 2:44:20 GMT
If there is a common collective consciousness, if there was indeed a true path to true happiness and enlightment, people wouldn't still be playing "My god can beat up your god" to this day. If people would just stop and realize there IS (probably) nothing outside the material realm, there IS no pattern to the Universe, and there IS no "meaning of life", we'd stop having wars, terrorism, suicide bombers, and all that other junk. It is absurd to think that there is nothing outside the physical realm. Do you not dream or fantasize? 1) Name one thing in the universe that defies cause and effect. 2) Life has meaning to those whom fulfill the promise of making the world better for having lived. 3) You can find true peace in the midst of turmoil I can't criticize what you've said above. Only your intolerance for the methods others use to find their way.
|
|
stev0
Moving
He's an utter creep and he drives me 'round the bend
Posts: 517
|
Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 2:57:43 GMT
Of course I do. The only difference is I realize they're just dreams and fantasies.
There is nothing. There are many things that can't be explained (yet), but every action produces a reaction. In fact, that's the major problem with the current U.S. administration - they don't realize their actions have long-term, very negative effects.
I heartily agree with you. Personally, I do a lot of volunteer work and donate a lot of money to various causes I think are making this a better planet.
This is also another thing, however, which is ruining our planet - many people think the only way to "leave their mark" is by procreation. I don't often say something is wrong, but THAT *IS* wrong! Our planet doesn't need more humans messing it up even more than it already is!
Agreed. I'd like to think I have. What works for you won't neccissarily work for me, however, and vice versa.
I don't care what people believe or not believe. However, when someone says "My way is the ONLY way," then I start looking for things to pelt them with. When someone says something absurd like "Of course Jesus is God" or "Of course Jesus isn't God," that's when I can pretty much stop taking them seriously. I only have intolerance for other people's methods when they have intolerance for my lack of methods.
|
|
|
Post by Al Truest on Aug 17, 2005 3:12:20 GMT
Yes in the present. But I must believe that there is more. My thoughts and dreams and my plans include me flitting about the universe seeing and knowing all. Nonetheless, cause and effect will predictably prevail. You're brighter and more compassionate than I've given you credit for. But, then again I think I'm Mr Know it all sometimes (not an attractive trait) More good is done by taking stock of one's impact on the Earth and uplifting each soul you encounter one on one. Naturally Only your intolerance for the methods others use to find their way. Yes this is maddening to me as well. Intolerance is so distructive. It is also why I've said that Religion is the problem not spirituality.
|
|
stev0
Moving
He's an utter creep and he drives me 'round the bend
Posts: 517
|
Post by stev0 on Aug 17, 2005 3:41:02 GMT
I think they're one in the same. Saying, "You'll burn in Hell for that!" or "You'll, like, have a really bad karma for that, man." are two ways of saying the same thing.
I also believe that most of the world's problems are caused by Religion. Look at the middle east. The Israelis yell, "My imaginary friend is better than yours!" and bulldoze a Palestinian's home. The Palestinians yell, "No! MY imaginary friend is better than YOURS!" and blows up a dozen Israelis. Same in Northern Ireland. Same in Iraq. Same with India and Pakistan. Same with China and Tibet or Taiwan (only China is yelling, "My complete lack of an imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend!").
Personally, I have no INtolerance for whatever methods people use to cope with life. They might just be right, after all. I DO have no tolerance when those same people turn around and say, "Try MORMON* brand God! He's milder! Much milder!"
* - or any other brand
|
|
|
Post by Xanadu on Aug 18, 2005 19:21:49 GMT
Honestly, nothing grows more tiresome than an argument that's going nowhere. Rememer the old saying about politics and religion... Back to Sensual World and our discusssion about it. Don't want to scare the other members of posting on this song.
|
|
|
Post by Adey on Feb 16, 2006 14:25:21 GMT
Thanks for bringing this back on track dagojr. Your effort is appreciated - always nice to see a context provided for lyrics we have become so familiar with..
|
|
|
Post by Xanadu on Feb 16, 2006 20:36:49 GMT
I think I can offer some insight into the phrase "then I'd taken the kiss of seedcake back from his mouth." Xanadu has already posted the reference to it in Molly's soliloquy, but Leopold Bloom also recalls this episode earlier in _Ulysses_ (if you're not familiar with Joyce's novel, Leopold is Molly's husband). _Ulysses_ is one of my all-time favorite novels, and I have much more to say about this song, but I think this is enough for now. I'll be sure to post more on this later. Thanks for adding this here, dagojr, and welcome. It's great to see some new interest in discussing references like this. I hope to discuss more soon!
|
|
|
Post by Al Truest on Feb 17, 2006 4:22:51 GMT
Thank you for the links and the thought provovking comments. 'will respond more later.
|
|
|
Post by Adey on Feb 17, 2006 12:50:00 GMT
Superb work Dagojr..
|
|
|
Post by Barry SR Gowing on Mar 30, 2008 8:48:26 GMT
Since no one has talked about this song for quite a while, let me just that I'm one of those who thinks it is very erotic.
I encountered this song quite unexpectedly during a period when I was not into Kate, but it pulled me straight into the Kate-world. One thing that really impresses me about Kate is that except for her earliest videos, she hasn't ever explioted sexuality in an obvious way. I like the fact that from the HOL period onwards she dresses in a very demure way. In The Sensual World video she could be hardly be more dressed, and yet she sings this song of eroticism and sensual awakening into the physical world (and it's not all about sex, of course) that is superlative. It's one of the great things about Kate, she doesn't do the obvious or pander to the lowest common denominator.
I think she did well with the lyric she came up with. It, of course, isn't quite Joycean but then it doesn't have to be. There are little moments of departure for example,
"Should I look for those millionaires Like a Machiavellian girl When I could wear a sunset"
Initially the idea of a Machiavellian girl might seem to be totally at odds with Molly Bloom's monologue, but you note that Kate (or her character) immediately rejects the idea. She'd much rather 'wear a sunset'. I can't even tell why that's such a great image, but it just is.
Also the way "Machiavellian girl' fits over the melody is just ... genius.
--Paul--
|
|
|
Post by rosabelbelieve on Mar 30, 2008 15:10:37 GMT
I love that line as well. The image of wearing 'a sunset' is superb.
|
|
|
Post by Al Truest on Mar 30, 2008 17:54:54 GMT
The image of wearing 'a sunset' is superb. Yeah, it dresses up just being naked.
|
|