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Post by Al Truest on Mar 22, 2005 4:07:52 GMT
Thanks for your efforts Sal. We do appreciate your time.
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Post by tannis on Nov 26, 2007 21:02:48 GMT
A fine song dealing, IMHO, with awakening (& overwhelming!) sexuality and the difficult transition from adolescence to adulthood. A child uses game-playing to work through the fears of becoming adult, etc… But the adjustment is never easy… and inevitably, the hounds of love come baying… This awakening sexuality harks back to her childhood fears... and creates mental excitement and confusion... The pull and the push... the hounds are pl(b)aying within and without... 'Oh, here I go...' - like a roller-coaster! ‘Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake’ may be a compromise or bargain between shedding and retaining childhood innocence. The narrator wants to preserve her childlike innocence AND to overcome her fears... ‘On the water’ is about preserving innocence (Jesus) AND overcoming fears (through faith, Peter overcame his fears and walked on water). It may also represent abandoning oneself to passion! (...and see EDIT THREE below).
She is scared (sometimes terrified) of the transition… but she recognizes her fears as silly… The fox allowed her to take him in her hands because he sensed they were both terrified… But the fox had a very real reason for running scared… She thus feels ashamed of being afraid of what are only natural impulses... (The fox - caught/cornered or caught/injured? The fox thus alerts her to the pitbulls of desire.)
The song also recognises the same fears/anxieties/passions in her (adolescent Romeo) partner… He is also hounded by the hounds of love… He must also shed his innocence, have the faith to overcome his fears, and abandon himself to adulthood (‘take your shoes off…)… [and throw their 'feuding households' off the scent?]
Of course, the song is multi-layered... There's the yearning for freedom from neurotic patterns… How our present fears/neuroses have their roots in childhood fears… And how unsuccessful resolutions (‘I’ve always been a coward’) make the cycle of adulthood commitments and challenges more trying & difficult to deal with (‘and I don't know what's good for me’).
I found a fox Caught by dogs He let me take him in my hands...
'He came home late... late and full of drink... I can't forget his eyes: they were open, filled with surprise, with pain... like the eyes of a fox I once saw, a fox the dogs had hunted down...' - (from The Innocents, 1961, the film basis for KB's 'The Infant Kiss').
EDIT ONE: HOL - 'Hamlet & Ophelia'/Night of the Demon? Ophelia losing her purity? - "Do you think I meant country matters?"/"I think nothing, my lord!" - The inside sleeve picture of KB is her as Ophelia (her as "The Hogsmill Ophelia"?) ... - Kate Bush owns the "The Hogsmill Ophelia" (a painting of a cracked doll drowning in sewage) - gaffa.org/dreaming/tnw_gen.html - In Shakespeare's Hamlet, Ophelia will sing some "mad" little songs about death and a maiden losing her virginity. She will say "good night", exit and later be found drowned (TNW).
The Hogsmill Ophelia: a painting which Kate keeps on her wall. gaffa.org/passing/ophelia.gif
EDIT TWO: 'Hamlet & Ophelia' (with ref to FI, TKI, GOoMH, HOL...) I've always been a coward And I don't know what's good for me... HOL
In Shakespeare's Hamlet, Hamlet questions himself: 'Am I a coward?' (II.ii), and curses himself for his hesitation. Hamlet lacks the insight to see what is restraining him from acting. By constantly brooding over his situation, Hamlet loses the momentum necessary to act... 'Thus conscience does make cowards of us all' (III.i)... Hamlet reacts rather than acts.
In the play there is evidence that Hamlet slept with Ophelia during their relationship and had promised her they’d get married. Laertes is convinced that Ophelia cannot marry Hamlet; and if she can't marry him, then the relationship can only harm her. She could "lose [her] heart, or [her] chaste treasure open... Fear it, Ophelia, fear it..." (I.iii). Polonius believes that Hamlet’s melancholy and strange behavior may be due to his lovesickness for Ophelia. Laertes thinks his sister weak and foolish, but Polonius assumes that she should know better and is likely to lie, or make a fool of him. He has heard that Hamlet has "given private time" to Ophelia, and he forbids her to see him again. However, Hamlet, II.i...
POLONIUS: Mad for thy love?
OPHELIA: My lord, I do not know; But truly, I do fear it... He [Hamlet] took me by the wrist and held me hard; Then goes he to the length of all his arm; And, with his other hand thus o'er his brow, He falls to such perusal of my face As he would draw it. Long stay'd he so; At last, a little shaking of mine arm And thrice his head thus waving up and down, He raised a sigh so piteous and profound As it did seem to shatter all his bulk And end his being: that done, he lets me go: And, with his head over his shoulder turn'd, He seem'd to find his way without his eyes; For out o' doors he went without their helps, And, to the last, bended their light on me.
Act 1, Scene 2 opened with the wedding party of Claudius and Gertrude. After the party, Hamlet stayed up to witness the Ghost. Then in Act 2, Scene 1, Ophelia comes in to see her father, she's obviously distressed about something and he asks her about it. Hamlet had come in "...with his doublet all unbraced... [his stockings] Ungartered, and down-gyved to his ankle..." (FI: 'My stockings fall Onto the floor Desperate for more.)... Hamlet is spooked and grabs her by the wrist, pulls her to him, stares at her really intently, shook a little, threw back his head a few times and here's the kicker, "...He raised a sigh so piteous and profound/ As it did seem to shatter all his bulk/ And end his being."
POLONIUS: This is the very ecstasy of love, Whose violent property fordoes itself And leads the will to desperate undertakings...
(FI: Oh, feel it. Oh, oh feel it... Ophelia...?) ... Hamlet then leaves in a sort of daze, pausing in the doorway to look at Ophelia. Obviously something went down between them, but what really happened is only implied. (GOoMH: You paused in the doorway... As though a thought stole you away... I watched the world pull you away...)
Polonius instructs Ophelia to "lock" herself away from Hamlet, admit no messengers and receive no tokens. (GOoMH: With my key I (lock it)...)
Hamlet lays into Ophelia in III.i, telling her, "To a nunnery, go!" A "nunnery" was slang for a whorehouse; and Hamlet seems to think she is as dishonored as she is dishonest. He knows she is deceitful from having just heard her agree to spy on him. The best way for him to know she is dishonored is if he has dishonored her... Why did you have to make me feel that? ... It is hard to avoid the thought that Hamlet has seduced and abandoned her. Withering Blights.
After Hamlet has killed and hidden Polonius' body, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are sent to bring Hamlet to the king. Hamlet suddenly turns and runs, saying "Hide fox, and all after!" - as if they were children playing hide-and-seek. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern run after him.
Ophelia then makes a reference to losing her virginity to Hamlet in her singing in Act 4, Scene 5.
OPHELIA (sings): To-morrow is Saint Valentine's day, All in the morning betime, And I a maid at your window, To be your Valentine. Then up he rose, and donn'd his clothes, And dupp'd the chamber-door; Let in the maid, that out a maid Never departed more... By Gis and by Saint Charity, Alack, and fie for shame! Young men will do't, if they come to't; By cock, they are to blame. Quoth she, before you tumbled me, You promised me to wed...
The song about St Valentine's day is Ophelia expressing how she feels Hamlet has treated her. In the song, the young man sees the maid first thing in the morning, traditionally that meant that they would marry and that she was his 'One true love' and all that wonderfully romantic yet slightly twisted ideology. So he opened his door to let in the virgin, and no virgins departed. So later the girl is expecting marriage, and the young man essentially says to her that he can't marry her because she slept with him. Hamlet had said things to that effect to Ophelia earlier in the play.
When she returns, she has gathered herbs. The various herbs have symbolic meanings well-documented in the scholarship, but the only herb she intends for herself is rue: "...there's rue for you, and here's some for me..." The symbolic meaning of rue is regret. Ophelia has much to rue, but the symbolic meaning is not the only one. The herb rue is a powerful abortifacient... heavy with seed... Presumably Shakespeare would have given Ophelia hemlock if she had intended to poison herself.
A girl who has been seduced and abandoned generally need fear nothing but a broken heart, provided there is no evidence of her shame... Oh, I'm so worried about my love... But if she is pregnant (à la TKI), then there is no way to hide what she has done, unless she can abort the child, or kill herself. And, indeed, shortly thereafter, Ophelia drowns herself. (TNW, the 'De Efteling' Ophelia, etc.)
Ophelia is an innocent character. She isn't trying to deceive anyone, but she is ignored and in a way trampled throughout the play (even in her grave?). Though her virginity can be questioned, her innocence is a different matter. The other characters end up suffocating her and surrounding her with their deceit, effectively drowning her in lies.
Gertrude speaks of Ophelia's purple phallic garlands. Gertrude's description of Ophelia's suicide suggests a woman driven mad by lost love, and is so detailed as to suggest she saw it, but did nothing about it. That would make perfect sense if Gertrude knew of Ophelia's pregnancy, and agreed that suicide was her only real option.
You read me Shakespeare on the rolling Thames...
HAMLET: Do you see yonder cloud that's almost in shape of a camel? ... Methinks it is like a weasel... Or like a whale? ... [Aside.] They fool me to the top of my bent... - Cloudbusting?
EDIT THREE: from The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Andersen
But what became of little Gerda when Kay did not return? Where could he be? Nobody knew; nobody could give any intelligence. All the boys knew was, that they had seen him tie his sledge to another large and splendid one, which drove down the street and out of the town. Nobody knew where he was; many sad tears were shed, and little Gerda wept long and bitterly; at last she said he must be dead; that he had been drowned in the river which flowed close to the town. Oh! those were very long and dismal winter evenings! At last spring came, with its warm sunshine. "Kay is dead and gone!" said little Gerda. "That I don't believe," said the Sunshine. "Kay is dead and gone!" said she to the Swallows. "That I don't believe," said they: and at last little Gerda did not think so any longer either. "I'll put on my red shoes," said she, one morning; "Kay has never seen them, and then I'll go down to the river and ask there." It was quite early; she kissed her old grandmother, who was still asleep, put on her red shoes, and went alone to the river. "Is it true that you have taken my little playfellow? I will make you a present of my red shoes, if you will give him back to me." And, as it seemed to her, the blue waves nodded in a strange manner; then she took off her red shoes, the most precious things she possessed, and threw them both into the river. But they fell close to the bank, and the little waves bore them immediately to land; it was as if the stream would not take what was dearest to her... www.pddoc.com/tales/snow_queen_3rd_story_hans_christian_andersen.htm
on The Red Shoes
In the Brothers Grimm version of the Snow White story, the wicked stepmother is forced to wear ret-hot iron shoes and dance in them until she falls down dead. It is her punishment for being too heated herself with envy over Snow White, and for letting that passion get out of control.
Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale, The Red Shoes, also warns about the dangers of vanity. A child named Karen is unable to remove her red shoes and unable to stop dancing in them. The shoes dance her feet across meadows and forests for months. Wretched and exhausted, she finally begs an executioner to chop off her feet: "Don't chop my head off," she says, "for then I can never repent of my sins. But pray, pray chop off my feet with the red shoes!" He does, and the chopped off red shoes dance away with her feet still in them... Just like on the album cover!
EDIT FOUR: from Night of the Demon (1957)
It's in the trees! It's coming! Intrigued by the power of the runic symbols, Miss Harrington and Dr Holden head off to Lufford Hall to meet with Mr Karswell. When they arrive, Karswell is dressed up as a circus magician (Dr Bobo the Magnificent) and is entertaining children with magic tricks at his "annual Halloween party for the village children". Karswell breaks from entertaining the children and greets Dr Holden and Miss Harrington. Karswell's Mother takes Miss Harrington away, leaving Karswell and Dr Holden to walk through the grounds of Lufford Hall. They discuss witchcraft and the powers of darkness. Dr Holden believes none of it. So to prove his point, Karswell casts a spell and conjures up a hurricane 'wind storm' which sweeps though the grounds, sending the children fleeing from the Tempest... "A magician doesn't like to expose his magic, black or white..."
And so KB and The Magician conjure up TNW... It's in the trees! It's coming!
see more: on HOL/Night of the Demon/KT katebush.proboards6.com/index.cgi?board=leaveitopen&action=display&n=1&thread=1998&page=2 on KT and The Magician katebush.proboards6.com/index.cgi?board=houndsoflove&action=display&n=1&thread=1714&page=2
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 6, 2008 0:29:51 GMT
Tannis sums this song up so well it's hard to add anything! One touch I particularly like is near the beginning of the song, after the line: And of what was following me...The backing vocals sing "Doo doo doo doo doo doo" but then after the next line when Kate confesses: Now hounds of love are huntingthe backing vocals suddenly starting barking like dogs. Such a humorous touch in a very emotionally charged song! That's one of things I adore about Kate - the unexpected juxtaposition of light and dark, sad and funny. Like life tends to be. In the song the singer is awakening to the world of love and sensuality, but finds it hard to break away from her childhood comfort zones. She reacts as if she were a child frightened by the dark. I recall as a child that I was frightened by the dark. I would run through the dark section of the hall at night, racing for the light at the end, convinced that something would get me otherwise. Irrational fear. Could this child grow up and still have the same sort of fears superimposed into new adult concerns? Yes, of course she (or he) could. And did. Of course, if you're a young male and you're "supposed" to be the hunter, not the pursued, then things can get very fraught indeed. But that's another story for another day, I expect. Perhaps I should write a song about it. Tannis' mention of the The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Anderson is very relevant. I notice that in the story the river refuses to carry away what is most precious to her. She makes a sacrifice to the river but ... they have an understanding. There is no loss. Of course, that would mean that the shoes in The Hounds of Love are symbolic. She could give herself, her passion, her intimacy, to her lover and not be "taken away" or "lost". If only she knew what was good for her... Another possibility is that the taking off of the shoes, and throwing them away, is just the image of a kind of liberating step. --Paul--
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Post by tannis on Apr 6, 2008 2:24:17 GMT
Thank you Paul... Yes, this song is emotionally charged! Sometimes its humour colors my listening, and it feels like a roller-coaster ride, and sometimes the song feels dark and sad. If only she knew what was good for her... Her fears are irrational, and as you point out, the river knows there is no loss, and the song can suggest a rite of liberation. Hounds of Love also taps into Excalibur and the Lady of the Lake... introducing the Tennysonian theme taken up in The Ninth Wave Suite:"As Arthur lies dying, he tells Sir Bedivere (Sir Griflet in some versions) to return his sword to the lake by throwing it into the water. Bedivere is reluctant to throw away such a precious sword, so twice he only pretends to do so. Each time, Arthur asks him to describe what he saw. When Bedivere tells him the sword simply fell into the water, Arthur scolds him harshly. Finally, Bedivere throws Excalibur into the lake. Before the sword strikes the water's surface, a hand reaches up to grasp it and pulls it under. Arthur leaves on a death barge with the three queens to Avalon, where as his legend says, he will one day return to rule in Britain's darkest hour." (wiki) The song works on many levels, holds many meanings, and leads in many directions. It ranks in my Top 10 KB Tracks! The extended version is really scary, in keeping with Night of the Demon. Elements of this 1957 movie (called Curse of the Demon in the US) inspired Kate Bush in the writing of her songs "Hounds of Love," "The Red Shoes" and her short film, The Line, The Cross & The Curve. In this mash-up mini movie/music vid, Kate does battle with the conjurer Karswell...and the evil thing he's conjured too!Kate Bush in "NIGHT OF THE DEMON" (Hounds Of Love)www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGAkoCRRJvwFantastic...
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 6, 2008 5:15:33 GMT
I found a fox Caught by dogs He let me take him in my hands...'He came home late... late and full of drink... I can't forget his eyes: they were open, filled with surprise, with pain... like the eyes of a fox I once saw, a fox the dogs had hunted down...' - (from The Innocents, 1961, the film basis for KB's 'The Infant Kiss'). Ah, if the fox symbolises an actual person then that could put a different slant on the song. It may be that the fox might symbolise a kindred soul who lets her "take him in ...[her]...hands". This tender moment might make all the difference. The other thing I'm thinking is that the fears of the character are not entirely groundless - love does not always go well, she could be hurt emotionally. She may not "know what's good for her" in the sense of how does she pick the right lover? Someone who will be good for her and not hurtful. The problem is that she's running away from all love as a consequence. Sometimes you just need to take a chance on love - if you don't then you may never find it at all. --Paul--
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Apr 6, 2008 22:01:00 GMT
Tannis sums this song up so well it's hard to add anything! One touch I particularly like is near the beginning of the song, after the line: And of what was following me...The backing vocals sing "Doo doo doo doo doo doo" but then after the next line when Kate confesses: Now hounds of love are huntingthe backing vocals suddenly starting barking like dogs. Such a humorous touch in a very emotionally charged song! That's one of things I adore about Kate - the unexpected juxtaposition of light and dark, sad and funny. Like life tends to be. I love this as well. I also adore the times when the two nearly coalesce- the emotion of the song taken to the level of the mule's bray and the shriek, and the imitation of bird song... it's tragedy and comedy all at once. A superlative song dealing, IMHO, with awakening (& overwhelming!) sexuality and the difficult transition from adolescence to adulthood. A child uses game-playing to work through the fears of becoming adult, etc… But the adjustment is never easy… and inevitably, the hounds of love come baying… This awakening sexuality harks back to her childhood fears... and creates mental excitement and confusion... The pull and the push... the hounds are pl(b)aying within and without... 'Oh, here I go...' - like a roller-coaster! ‘Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake’ may be a compromise or bargain between shedding and retaining childhood innocence. The narrator wants to preserve her childlike innocence AND to overcome her fears... ‘On the water’ is about preserving innocence (Jesus) AND overcoming fears (through faith, Peter overcame his fears and walked on water). It may also represent abandoning oneself to passion! (...and see EDIT THREE below).
She is scared (sometimes terrified) of the transition… but she recognizes her fears as silly… The fox allowed her to take him in her hands because he sensed they were both terrified… But the fox had a very real reason for running scared… She thus feels ashamed of being afraid of what are only natural impulses... (The fox - caught/cornered or caught/injured? The fox thus alerts her to the pitbulls of desire.)
The song also recognises the same fears/anxieties/passions in her (adolescent Romeo) partner… He is also hounded by the hounds of love… He must also shed his innocence, have the faith to overcome his fears, and abandon himself to adulthood (‘take your shoes off…)… [and throw their 'feuding households' off the scent?]
Great observations, Tannis and Paul! This is a wonderful song... the phrase 'take my shoes off, and throw them in the lake!' is one of my favorites. I do think it symbolizes a sort of crossing of the first threshold, an liberating abandon to the character's passions, and also a shedding of childhood fears and anxieties, the unfitting forms that restrict the heroine's growth. She must sacrifice these outgrown forms to make way for new life- the possibility of love, and herself as a whole adult person. And though this is an intense and difficult transition, I've always thought of this song having a happy ending, where the singer finally does 'what's good for her', and thrown off her fears and inhibitions to let herself fall in love, give herself up to the course of life. The river and the lake are very interesting... I think it shows that all change has continuity, if the makes any sense. In the river of life, the source of life, the hounds of love simply summon one to surrender to the next unfolding of it's eternal flow. It's in letting this happen that we keep in touch with the truly transcendent and unchangeable. The heroine must be caught by the hounds of love, the frightening and terrifying aspect of love, and surrender to it, the tragedy, before the comedy, and the joyful aspect of love can be known. And the metaphor of the hounds of love reminds me of this.. another passage from The Hero With a Thousand Faces... you guys can tell I really make the most of what I read, can't you? I fled Him, down the nights and down the days; I fled Him, down the arches of the years; I fled Him, down the labrynthine ways Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears I hid from Him, and under running laughter.
One is harassed, both day and night, by the divine being that is the image of the living self within the locked labyrinth of one's own disoriented psyche. The ways to the gates have all been lost: there is no exit. One can only cling, like Satan, furiously to oneself and be in hell; or else break, and be annihilate in God.Again, really enjoyed reading the insights her.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 8, 2008 3:05:17 GMT
And though this is an intense and difficult transition, I've always thought of this song having a happy ending, where the singer finally does 'what's good for her', and thrown off her fears and inhibitions to let herself fall in love, give herself up to the course of life. Yes, I also think of the song as having a happy ending. She sounds happy at the end, exultant even, and the music resolves positively. For maximum effect I alays immediately listen to "The Sensual World" straight after as its theme of suddenly emergent sensuality seems to dovetail neatly on to the realisation that seems to occur at the end of Hounds of Love. The last lines are: Do you know what I really need? L-l-l-l-love, yeah! Sounds positive to me. Of course, it's clear that I want Hounds of Love to have a happy ending...
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Post by tannis on Jun 20, 2008 13:37:44 GMT
HOUNDS OF LOVE VIDEOKB: Hounds of Love is the third single, and trying to follow the Cloudbusting video was extremely difficult. I still wanted to follow the approach of making "a short film", and this time we wanted to suggest a piece of "Hitchcock": a short thriller. Paddy inspired me into a 39 Steps theme, and for the two-three weeks over Christmas my life became this third video. It was particularly hard organising meetings over Christmas; everyone was busy partying. At one meeting someone turned up in fancy dress. The advantage was that I got a brilliant crew who were free to do the shoot because it was Christmas-time, generally a very quiet period. If you get to see the video, let us know if you spot Hitchcock's appearance? Kate's KBC article, Issue 19 (Spring 1987), Even More Hounds Of Lovegaffa.org/garden/kate21.htmlKate Bush - Hounds of Lovewww.youtube.com/watch?v=QFMqV2FfPNk0:20-24 ... Hitchcock walks across camera shot. 1:10/1:50 ... Did you spot Einstein?THE WHOLE STORYKB: ...we wanted to suggest a piece of "Hitchcock"Given the Hitchcock influence on The KT Bush Work, I wonder if the title, THE WHOLE STORY, was taken from Hitchcock's Psycho...[/b] DR. RICHMOND: No. I got the whole story--but not from Norman. I got it--from his mother. Norman Bates no longer exists. He only half existed to begin with. And now, the other half has taken over--probably for all time. Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho - screenplaywww.paradiselost.org/psycho.htmlsee more: Mother Stands For Comfortkatebush.proboards6.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=houndsoflove&thread=1717&page=1----- Shooting the Shooters"Draw back from the view through the camera, and at least forty people are involved in the process. The centre of the hub is the camera itself. Everything around it is focusing towards what the camera sees, and in many ways it is like a weapon, a communicating-weapon, with its crew to serve it: someone sighting it, someone to work out the range, someone checking the weather, someone to load it, someone to push it around, someone to prepare the ground that it moves over, someone to assemble it and take it down, someone to supply it with power, and someone to say when it should shoot. And someone to be its target... " The Hounds of Love video was a first for Kate in another way. It was her first official role as Director... This was a much more concentrated video than Cloudbusting in the sense that, apart from a short location on Wimbledon Common in the freezing cold at night, the locations were at the same studio... When the extras and the main performers came on the set it was uncanny, as the clothes and make-up totally transformed everyone: it was a bit like coming face to face with my parents and their friends when they were young. Many of the people had been picked for their similarity to well-known faces of the time--did you spot Hitchcock and Einstein?--and all were chosen for their visual appearance... The second main set was smaller and represented a church hall party in full swing, again sometime in during the forties. There were even civil defence instruction letters on the notice board... For me the real highpoint was when the actual conga began. I had never thought of the Hounds of Love track being danced to by a line of drunk merrymakers doing such a traditionally establishment dance as the conga, but it was so striking that I am unable to hear the track now without seeing that line moving through the set over and over again..." John Carder Bush's, KBC Newsletter contributions, 4. Shooting the Shooters gaffa.org/garden/jcb4.html
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Post by tannis on Jun 22, 2008 21:15:47 GMT
"It's in the trees! It's coming!" Wimbledon Tennis starts tomorrow... The exterior shots in the Hounds Of Love video were filmed on location on Wimbledon Common. But KaTe isn't a big fan of the tennis...Q. Are you into sport?A. Not really. I sometimes wish I was. I see friends getting enormous pleasure out of watching Wimbledon or something but no, not for me, I'm afraid. Sometimes I enjoy watching athletes and gymnasts. But that's maybe because of dancing. I like dancing because there's the combination of music and athleticism without the competition that's integral to sport. Kate Bush: Q magazine interview, December 1993www.paradiseplace.org.uk/Kate/Katep3.html
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Post by tannis on Jul 13, 2008 11:17:56 GMT
KATE on HOUNDS OF LOVEI: When you see an image, you automatically read meanings into it. There are certain connotations that are unavoidable, and implicit. The latest sleeve: I would have thought lying with two dogs asleep, entitled Hounds of Love, connecting the two you have created quite a definitive... KB: "Yes. I think Hounds of Love is very obvious--quite a lot of people have suggested that. But when you think of it in terms of the song it's completely different. It's the sense of the 'hounds' of love: the hound symbolically representing that force. You're terrified of it so you run, but it keeps coming after you, and you're terrified that when it catches you, it's going to hurt you." I: But if you interpret that on a subconscious level, what does it mean? KB: "On a subconscious level! What are we getting into, Freud?" I: Well, why not? KB: "I haven't gone that far. It was an image, the idea of being scared. Instead of this force of man, it was a pack of hounds." I: But what are people afraid of? People are afraid of sex. People are fascinated by it, but it does also have the quality of inspiring fear. And particularly if it's with somebody or something which isn't an accepted part of everyday situations. So it's to do with temptation, and once you commit the sin, everything is actually fine--because that's what people experience in relation to sexuality. KB: "I suppose you're right. I suppose the fear of relationships is what it's about, but obviously it's dealing with a man and woman, and that does have to do with sexual energy." Hot Press, "The Private Kate Bush" (1985)gaffa.org/reaching/i85_hp.htmlKB: "When I was writing the song I sorta started coming across this line about hounds and I thought "hounds of love" and the whole idea of being chasing by this love that actually gonna... when it get you it just going to rip you to pieces, [raises voice] you know, and have your guts all over the floor! So this very sort of... being hunted by love, I liked the imagery, I thought it was really good." Radio 1, Classic Albums interview: Hounds Of Love (1992)gaffa.org/reaching/ir85_r1.htmlSplit me open With devotion You put your hands in And rip my heart out Eat the music...Eat The Music and Hounds of Love can be added to KaTe's thanatological passion! ... Eat The Music is like a pack of Love-Hounds going in for the kill... Rip them to pieces... and have your guts all over the floor!There is a similarity between Eat The music and Hounds Of Love, isn't there? Except in HOL there seems to be more of a death-fear, a fear of being swallowed up and taken apart by the ravenous and glorious force of love - whereas in ETM there is a feeling of the greater ecstasy within all the 'splitting open.' Hounds Of Love seems to somewhat arrive at that feeling in the end, though. Yes, Rosa, I agree! Hounds Of Love does seems to deal with a "death-fear" and a loss of self to intimacy. In HOL, the protagonist's fears of intimacy evoke in her mind bloodsports and childhood paranoia. However, as you say, Hounds Of Love also seems to arrive at a feeling of ecstasy within the 'splitting open', as expressed in Eat The Music. There's a neat expansion of the HOL chorus, and the protagonist cries "Don't let me go! Hold me down!", like she's ready for the hounds of love to 'rip her to pieces with sticky fingers and have her guts all over the floor!' ...
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Post by tannis on Sept 12, 2008 19:34:56 GMT
THE RITE OF KATE BUSHTake my shoes off And throw them in the lake, And I'll be Two steps on the water...she took off her red shoes... and threw them both into the river...But what became of little Gerda when Kay did not return? Where could he be? Nobody knew; nobody could give any intelligence. All the boys knew was, that they had seen him tie his sledge to another large and splendid one, which drove down the street and out of the town. Nobody knew where he was; many sad tears were shed, and little Gerda wept long and bitterly; at last she said he must be dead; that he had been drowned in the river which flowed close to the town. Oh! those were very long and dismal winter evenings! At last spring came, with its warm sunshine. "Kay is dead and gone!" said little Gerda. "That I don't believe," said the Sunshine. "Kay is dead and gone!" said she to the Swallows. "That I don't believe," said they: and at last little Gerda did not think so any longer either. "I'll put on my red shoes," said she, one morning; "Kay has never seen them, and then I'll go down to the river and ask there." It was quite early; she kissed her old grandmother, who was still asleep, put on her red shoes, and went alone to the river. "Is it true that you have taken my little playfellow? I will make you a present of my red shoes, if you will give him back to me." And, as it seemed to her, the blue waves nodded in a strange manner; then she took off her red shoes, the most precious things she possessed, and threw them both into the river. But they fell close to the bank, and the little waves bore them immediately to land; it was as if the stream would not take what was dearest to her...The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Andersenwww.pddoc.com/tales/snow_queen_3rd_story_hans_christian_andersen.htmI don't know what's good for me. I don't know what's good for me. I need your love love love love love, yeah! Your love! ...In The Ice Queen, Andersen’s female protagonist, Gerda, is the exemplary female. She represses her sexuality and is able to find and save the boy she loves because of her innate innocence. Unlike Karen (The Red Shoes), Gerda discards her red shoes before they take over. Lederer writes: "Gerda makes the crucial—and Christian—decision to remain pure. Nor is the decision an easy one: when she casts the red shoes into the stream, they come back. We now understand what a breath-holding matter it is whether she will become a wanton or whether she will have the strength of character to remain pure—to rid herself of a sexuality that has already threatened to become a habit."
However, Gerda does rid herself of this sexuality. On her quest to find her true love she encounters many helpers, one of them being a Finn Woman. At one point the Finn Woman says, "No power I could give her (Gerda) could be as great as that which she already has. Strength lies in her heart, because she is such a sweet, innocent child". Similarly, the second to last line of the fairy tale is as follows: "And they (Gerda and her lover) sat there, grown-up-but children still—children at heart". Gerda is Andersen’s exemplary female. She has managed to overcome her sexuality, to repress it to the point that it is no longer a part of her. As pointed out in the text several times, Gerda remains innocent and sweet.
Though the ending of this tale is happy, it is apparent that the heroes have undergone a change that is more complex than the initiation of fairy tale heroes: at he end of "The Snow Queen", Kai and Gerda have become adults and, though they are still "children at heart", they have learned about the existence of evil in the world and, worse than that, about the evil that can exist within themselves.
In "The Snow Queen" the quest materializes in the evolution from childhood to maturity, which involves getting the awareness of evil in the world and within oneself. When becoming aware of his own shadow, in Jungian terms, (which in fairy tales is perceived as the difference between natural and supernatural); one also discovers the existence of the evil in one’s own soul. C.G. Jung believes that "Heaven and Hell are destinies of the soul", thus suggesting that the human soul is the site of good / evil opposition. It is there that one also encounters the shadow, which according to Jung is the first step to self knowledge.
One issue with the repression of female sexuality is that Andersen’s characters are unable to transition into adulthood. Meyers writes, "These stories are tragic. These girls are not developing into adulthood, but rather retreating into death and an asexual angelic idealized maternal image". This is true for both girls in The Little Mermaid and The Red Shoes. At the end of the tales, the little mermaid becomes a "daughter of the air" while Karen’s "soul travel(s) along the shaft of sunlight to heaven". Although Gerda is able to survive, she never fully transcends into adulthood. She and her lover are described as "grown-up, but children still at heart". This feminine ideal is unattainable because a woman cannot maintain this innocence and denial of sexuality. Andersen must instead murder his characters or place them in a state in which they are adults but possess no mature attributes.
The Little Mermaid, The Red Shoes, and The Ice Queen all promote Andersen’s feminine ideal. Andersen sought to create female characters that were intrinsically innocent. He did not know how to deal with his own sexual feelings and as a result justified them through repressing sexuality in his characters. Through the girls he created, Andersen was able to demonstrate the correct way of handling sexual impulses. Zipes asserts, "This tension between hatred of a repressive society (…) and fear of his unfulfilled sexual desires, which he condemned as transgression, is at the basis of some of his most intriguing fairy tales in which he used children to test and play out his ideals and morals". To Andersen, sexual impulses were unacceptable. He rewarded the female characters that were able to overcome them and harshly punished those that could not. This resulted in a cast of female characters, such as the little mermaid, Karen, and Gerda, that were emotionally stunted. That is, Andersen did not fully allow his female characters to develop into adulthood. They either retreated into death or remained children. Through rigorously repressing female sexuality, Andersen’s fairy tales perpetuate a feminine ideal that is unattainable.Take your shoes off And throw them in the lake! ...In Hounds of Love, the protagonist, just like Gerda, takes off her shoes and throws them both into the water. She then implores her darling to do the same. The song is gender neutral. But reference to Anderson's Gerda and The Snow Queen would make the two characters in Hounds of Love female, two Gerdas. The Big Sky video is extraordinarily camp and gay. So could the Hounds of Love's 'gender neutrality' appeal to a lavender lesbian fan-base?Do you know what I really need? Do you know what I really need? I need love love love love love, yeah!see more Hans Christian Andersen: A Dialogue storytellermisunderstood.blogspot.com/
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bess
Under Ice
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Post by bess on Sept 25, 2008 22:51:41 GMT
^ This is a very interesting piece that I enjoyed reading. The throwing of the protagonist's shoes in the lake does truly recall the scene in the fairy tale - but it seems to stand for something very different, not the shedding of worldly passions and desires for the sake of purity, but rather of inhibitions. And the character in Kate's song ends up with a much healthier picture of sexuality... acknowledging the shadow of desire that could break her open and 'have her guts on the floor' instead of repressing it. Thank you for the fascinating read.
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Post by tannis on Oct 3, 2008 10:38:41 GMT
Thank you, Bess... I so agree with your interpretation, and I'm sure KaTe would too:KATE: "...if you ever have any control over endings they should always, I feel, have some kind of light in there." Kate's KBC article, Issue 18, Hounds Of Love songs gaffa.org/garden/kate20.htmlIn some ways, HOL reminds me of Erikson's theory of psychosocial development, through which a person confronts, and hopefully masters, new challenges. He posited eight life stages, each with their own psychosocial crisis. Each stage builds on the successful completion of earlier stages; and stages not successfully completed may reappear as problems in the future. When I was a child Running in the night Afraid of what might be Hiding in the dark Hiding in the street And of what was following me... The song opens with a sense of regression (when I was a child), fear (running/afraid), paranoia (hiding/following). It seems that challenges posed during earlier developmental stages are reappearing as problems in the future. Now hounds of love are hunting I've always been a coward And I don't know what's good for me...The (young) protagonist associates love with hunting hounds, and she feels uncertain and cowardly. Socially, when a man wants a woman he's called a hunter; and our protagonist feels afraid of being captured, tamed and (creatively) limited. And the song pulls us into her fears and perhaps our own anxieties. The "fox" could represent confronting and mastering the new challenges; and the "shoes" could be a shifting metaphor representing fears of intimacy and overpowering sexuality (as in the red shoes), but also the shedding of inhibitions. And, as you say, the character in Kate's song ends up with a much healthier picture of sexuality... acknowledging the shadow of desire that could break her open and 'have her guts on the floor' instead of repressing it. And in this regard, HOL is about taming onself; about the ego replacing the reign of the pleasure principle by that of the reality principle, imposing the constraints of the social environment. Strengthening the ego to master one's own Hounds of Love! I'll try to keep myself open up to you It gets easier and easier to do Just like Jericho Let these walls come tumbling down now Let them fall right on the ground Let all these dogs go running free The wild and the gentle dogs Kenneled in me ~ Jericho, Joni Mitchell (1974)Erikson’s Stages of Psychosocial Development Like Piaget, Erik Erikson (1902-1994) maintained that children develop in a predetermined order. Instead of focusing on cognitive development, however, he was interested in how children socialize and how this affects their sense of self. Erikson’s Theory of Psychosocial Development has eight distinct stage, each with two possible outcomes. According to the theory, successful completion of each stage results in a healthy personality and successful interactions with others. Failure to successfully complete a stage can result in a reduced ability to complete further stages and therefore a more unhealthy personality and sense of self. These stages, however, can be resolved successfully at a later time.
Trust Versus Mistrust. From ages birth to one year, children begin to learn the ability to trust others based upon the consistency of their caregiver(s). If trust develops successfully, the child gains confidence and security in the world around him and is able to feel secure even when threatened. Unsuccessful completion of this stage can result in an inability to trust, and therefore an sense of fear about the inconsistent world. It may result in anxiety, heightened insecurities, and an over feeling of mistrust in the world around them.
Autonomy vs. Shame and Doubt. Between the ages of one and three, children begin to assert their independence, by walking away from their mother, picking which toy to play with, and making choices about what they like to wear, to eat, etc. If children in this stage are encouraged and supported in their increased independence, they become more confident and secure in their own ability to survive in the world. If children are criticized, overly controlled, or not given the opportunity to assert themselves, they begin to feel inadequate in their ability to survive, and may then become overly dependent upon others, lack self-esteem, and feel a sense of shame or doubt in their own abilities.
Initiative vs. Guilt. Around age three and continuing to age six, children assert themselves more frequently. They begin to plan activities, make up games, and initiate activities with others. If given this opportunity, children develop a sense of initiative, and feel secure in their ability to lead others and make decisions. Conversely, if this tendency is squelched, either through criticism or control, children develop a sense of guilt. They may feel like a nuisance to others and will therefore remain followers, lacking in self-initiative.
Industry vs. Inferiority. From age six years to puberty, children begin to develop a sense of pride in their accomplishments. They initiate projects, see them through to completion, and feel good about what they have achieved. During this time, teachers play an increased role in the child’s development. If children are encouraged and reinforced for their initiative, they begin to feel industrious and feel confident in their ability to achieve goals. If this initiative is not encouraged, if it is restricted by parents or teacher, then the child begins to feel inferior, doubting his own abilities and therefore may not reach his potential.
Identity vs. Role Confusion. During adolescence, the transition from childhood to adulthood is most important. Children are becoming more independent, and begin to look at the future in terms of career, relationships, families, housing, etc. During this period, they explore possibilities and begin to form their own identity based upon the outcome of their explorations. This sense of who they are can be hindered, which results in a sense of confusion ("I don’t know what I want to be when I grow up") about themselves and their role in the world.
Intimacy vs. Isolation. Occurring in Young adulthood, we begin to share ourselves more intimately with others. We explore relationships leading toward longer term commitments with someone other than a family member. Successful completion can lead to comfortable relationships and a sense of commitment, safety, and care within a relationship. Avoiding intimacy, fearing commitment and relationships can lead to isolation, loneliness, and sometimes depression.
Generativity vs. Stagnation. During middle adulthood, we establish our careers, settle down within a relationship, begin our own families and develop a sense of being a part of the bigger picture. We give back to society through raising our children, being productive at work, and becoming involved in community activities and organizations. By failing to achieve these objectives, we become stagnant and feel unproductive.
Ego Integrity vs. Despair. As we grow older and become senior citizens, we tend to slow down our productivity, and explore life as a retired person. It is during this time that we contemplate our accomplishments and are able to develop integrity if we see ourselves as leading a successful life. If we see our lives as unproductive, feel guilt about our pasts, or feel that we did not accomplish our life goals, we become dissatisfied with life and develop despair, often leading to depression and hopelessness.
Chapter 3: Personality Developmentallpsych.com/psychology101/social_development.html
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bess
Under Ice
Posts: 45
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Post by bess on Oct 4, 2008 16:45:10 GMT
The 'Stages of Psychosocial Development' are very interesting. There are so many mental and emotional crossroads we arrive at as children, feelings that will always return to us in that labyrinth life is. The Joni Mitchell lyrics fit in well, too.
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Post by tannis on Mar 6, 2009 21:27:46 GMT
Strange PhenomenaMy sister Joy and I are big Kate Bush fans. We grew up listening to Hounds of Love, The Kick Inside, and a few other of her albums that our mom had on vinyl. You might say she was the soundtrack to our childhood, but beyond that we were really taken with her because she was just so… weird. My mom had her concert video on VHS (or was it Beta?!), and the fact that she not only sang songs about killer violins but that she also had a man dress in a huge violin costume and chase her around the stage during a concert made her all the more appealing. I think I can say that our appreciation for Kate and her music has only deepened as we’ve gotten older. . . .
. . . .the other night Joy and I were trolling YouTube for Maya Deren films. She hadn’t seen any Maya Deren and I was thinking about doing a post about her, so we were looking at parts of Meshes of the Afternoon and Ritual in Transfigured Time. Suddenly we started noticing all these images that were eerily reminiscent of things we’d seen either in Kate Bush videos or on her album covers. It had been a while since we really dorked out on Kate Bush, so I committed to investigating the matter further. Here’s what I found…
Exhibit A: The lead dude in Kate Bush’s Hounds of Love video closely resembles a dude we see several shots of in the party scene in Ritual in Transfigured Time. They both have very bold, unconventional, almost superhero-ish features.
Exhibit B: Elements of the party scene in Hounds of Love are very reminiscent of the Ritual party scene. The choreography and flow feel very similar. The stills I picked out are so similar it kind of freaked me out.
Exhibit C: The cover of Kate Bush’s The Dreaming shows her with a key in her mouth. Next to that is a still from Meshes of the Afternoon - the part where Maya removes a key from her mouth. Plus they just look kind of alike, so it’s even weirder to see these images next to each other.
So is that weird or what? Do Joy and I have too much time on our hands? I don’t know. I do know I will continue my quest for further bizarre Maya/Kate linkages and post them here.libraryeverywhere.com/tag/kate-bush/Maya Deren (April 29, 1917, Kiev – October 13, 1961, New York City), born Eleanora Derenkowsky, was an American avant-garde filmmaker and film theorist of the 1940s and 1950s. Deren was also a choreographer, dancer, poet, writer and photographer. In 1943, she adopted the name Maya Deren. Maya is the name of the mother of the historical Buddha as well as the dharmic concept of the illusory nature of reality. In Greek myth, Maia is the mother of Hermes and a goddess of mountains and fields. Meshes of the Afternoon (1943) is recognized as a seminal American avant-garde film. Ritual in Transfigured Time was made in 1946, which explored the fear of rejection and the freedom of expression in abandoning ritual. In 1946 she was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship for "Creative Work in the Field of Motion Pictures." The Guggenheim grant enabled Deren to finance travel to Haiti to pursue her interest in voodoo. In Haiti, Deren not only filmed many hours of voodoo ritual, but also participated in them, and adopted the religion. Her book, Divine Horsemen: the Living Gods of Haiti (1953), is considered a definitive source on the subject. Meshes of the Afternoon 1 www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPi9i3gfSAM&feature=related Meshes of the Afternoon 2 www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiNyxt71RZs&feature=related Meshes of the Afternoon (1943) Dir: Maya Deren, Alexander Hammid. Screenplay: Maya Deren. Cast: Maya Deren, Alexander Hammid. Music: Teiji Ito. B&W. "This film is concerned with the interior experiences of an individual. It does not record an event which could be witnessed by other persons. Rather, it reproduces the way in which the subconscious of an individual will develop, interpret and elaborate an apparently simple and casual incident into a critical emotional experience." - Maya Deren on ''Meshes of the Afternoon''
Ritual in transfigured time, Maya Deren, 1946 www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrWNXLPFz40 6:23...
Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti Maya Deren Pt 1 of 6 www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0YD-MmhjTE&feature=related Documentary by Maya Deren on her visit to Haiti from 1947-1953
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