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Post by Lori on Jul 14, 2005 21:50:35 GMT
Discuss the album 'The Dreaming' as a whole.
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stev0
Moving
He's an utter creep and he drives me 'round the bend
Posts: 517
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Post by stev0 on Jul 18, 2005 15:09:44 GMT
Ah, the Greatest Album In the Known Universe.
It took me the longest time to get into this one. I knew when it would be out, thanks to a friend of a friend who was a KaTefanaTiK, so I got it pretty much the day it was released. My girlfriend and I put it on, stared at each other, and said, "wtf?"
Sure, some of it I loved right away (especially There Goes a Tenner), but some of it I just sort of stared at and said, "buh?" - especially Get Out of My House (which, ironically, is now probably my favorite song on the album. Today. Yesterday it was Night of the Swallow).
Then one day - just a few weeks before Hounds of Love came out, actually - I put it on, and again stared at the turntable. But this was a different stare - this one was followed by me yelling out, like Archemedes yelling out "Eurkeka!" - "This is the BEST ALBUM IN THE UNIVERSE!"
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Post by CopyOfCpt (just say Cor) on Jul 20, 2005 5:19:45 GMT
This record was made to be played loud, and this for me is true. A great album, if not the greatest. All the energy contained in there is just unlimited eventhough it is fed through a drip-line (it is not what you would call a "wall of guitar"-sound). At one point in time the album (and I am talking LP-era here) was almost worn to the thread (well... my turntable was not of the best quality either). If I'm in need of an energy boost: that is one of the albums that goes into the carousel.
Great story lines, great music, superb lyrics, great... GREATNESS
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genesismalachi23
Reaching Out
thank you atomjack for thee avatar! (visit thee site) http://www.fusionanomaly.net ye shan't regret!
Posts: 233
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Post by genesismalachi23 on Jul 20, 2005 8:03:25 GMT
This record was made to be played loud when E saw this printed in little letters in thee corner ov thee sleeve,E knew! just....knew! that this woman and E where meant to be together forever!
twenty-five years! where does thee time go?
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Post by CopyOfCpt (just say Cor) on Jul 20, 2005 10:59:38 GMT
E got it
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Post by matanchik on Jul 20, 2005 12:39:10 GMT
i actually prefer to hear the dreaming with headphones (especially late at night, when the room is dark, try it, it's scary as hell) because playing it loud can scare the people in my house (parents and sisters) and make them angry about me. but when no one's home i blast it
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W.HI.P
Moving
On the edge of the labyrinth
Posts: 561
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Post by W.HI.P on Jul 21, 2005 2:35:39 GMT
Ok, this album without a doubt, is the best album ever made!! Now, a lot of people say that about this album... Did you ever wonder why?
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Post by CopyOfCpt (just say Cor) on Jul 22, 2005 6:03:42 GMT
Yes actually. I know my preference and that is to have powerfull music. That can be accomplished by stacking guitar upon guitar and then top it off with bass and drums (example: Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Nirvana, Metallica) or to construct a melody and an atmosphere with less violent instruments like piano and violins. The Dreaming for me is an example of the latter, yes there are guitars in there but Mrs. Bush has combined them all together in such way that the album really does sound better when played loud. She shows a perfect mastery of her voice. Shouting and screaming but all in a controlled way. Curt Cobain screams as well, but his screaming merely conceils his lack of singing quality, whereas the screaming of Mrs. Bush is made possible because of her singing quality, the shouting somehow carries the voice. To me that becomes clear in songs like Houdini where she really restrains her voice and allows it to come to full power (no, not full, merely half) when it is appropriate: to stress the fact that his body is pulled from the water. Voice and music composed to a closely knit fabric, not voice surrounded by music.
That is what makes it (on of the) best album(s) ever made for me.
update: not that I would be so pretentious to think the album was made for me.. I realize that I should have written "that is, for me, what makes <snip> ... for me"
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Post by Adey on Jul 22, 2005 11:22:14 GMT
The Dreaming to be played loud? But of course - no question..
Of all the albums, it is most true of this one.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jan 14, 2008 22:16:10 GMT
I'm beginning to see The Dreaming as something of a concept album. There is something that seems to really flow through all the songs, for me, uniting them in a continuous story wth the central idea of a spiritual quest, a time of isolation and soul-searching. I also see it as a sort of artistic catharsis- a release of all these dark, wonderful creatures from the unconscious and the dreamtime. It's such an astonishingly complicated album, too, that I really do feel as if I'm hardly beginning to understand it, though in the best possible way. So I thought I'd post my ideas on it as a concept album, with a story, much like the Ninth Wave. Some of the songs have pretty clear literal meanings (There Goes a Tenner, Pull Out the Pin...) and I don't at all disagree woth those meanings, though for the purpose of the song cycle idea, I'm interpreting them on a more metaphorical level. These ideas are still kind of nebulous and unfinished for me, more like reading the Tarot or something than a logical analysis, but I thought I'd post them anyway. So I guess this is like a little introduction.
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Post by tannis on Feb 2, 2008 3:32:02 GMT
Today I listened to TD with your song cycle interpretation in mind and found it very interesting. SIYL does indeed map intellectual and spiritual chaos prior to beginning a journey of self-discovery. The cacophanous chorus of "Some say.." - like being overwhelmed in a library and not knowing which department to head for. X seems to settle for philosophical/theological pursuit (and maybe a trip to The Golden Triangle!); but with TGaT, X blunders into crime and is doing time with her distant memories; and with POTP has shapeshifted into The Enemy - ("You could smell the child...").These extremes stop her dead in her tracks, and SIG pulls her back to the reality of tending to her own spiritual garden. "Leave It Open seems to me to show the beginning of the process revealed in Suspended In Gaffa..." LIO attempts a cathartic escape from suspension. The song identifies the cause of the problem as "We let the weirdness in"; so maybe Side One of TD ends with a psychological breakthrough? ... Ordinary People (1980) - which incidentally also deals with drowning - also deals with psychological barriers and breakthroughs. Maybe X is moving forward... BTW, the Satanic "Leave it open!" finds echo in GOoMH ("Let me in!") and in WYWoM ("Let me in and don't be long!"), and echoes WH ("Let me in your window!"). Side Two. 'The Dreaming' takes us to Walkabout (1971) territory. Australian Aborigines "go walkabout" at the age of thirteen in the wilderness for six months as a rite of passage; and for a brief period in the early 1960s the Bush family relocated to Australia, but less than a year later they returned to East Wickham ... the Pull of Kate Bush!However, 'The Dreaming' is not a walkabout, but a drive-through safari over an exploited culture. The Western Civilizing Machine bulldozes the Aboriginal culture, a story telling of fear, entrapment and forced captivity. I like your idea of 'The Dreaming' as X's dream, taking her deeper into the unconscious. Artwork is Dreamwork, and dreams are the royal road to Freud's unconscious! ... "She is again a stranger who knows nothing of this mysterious ravishing land of light bouncing of the rocks to the sand..." Now this really does remind me of Walkabout (1971): In the film, the English children are stranded in the Australian desert. They meet an Aboriginal boy who helps them survive the outback. But the girl struggles with communication and comprehension. And when the Aboriginal boy begins a courting dance around the girl, she is frightened and shuts herself up in the house. The rejected Aborigine hangs himself from a tree during the night. Your Hestia-Hermes analysis of NOTS is just great! Hermes: messenger, traveller; thief, lock-picker; wandering god of the information highway; traveller's guide in life and death; the masculine. And Hestia: reigning at the center of the domestic sphere; the interior, the enclosed, the feminine, the family line, and the retreat. The wanting to retreat, to stay home, is very evident in the ghostly, tomb-like ATL... and 'Houdini' retreats us even further to the other side. 'Houdini' follows Night of the Swallow. In life, Houdini really was a returning swallow; but the 'You hit the water' brings to mind the forewarned 'swallow flying to Malta' (and of course water is a constant theme running through KB's work)... We pull you from the water! ... X returns with GOoMH - the Night of the Demon! - and we have another psychological breakthrough: keep the weirdness out (and keep Hermes at the front door of the house!). Anyway, thank you Rosabelbelieve - and I look forward to reading your future posts... KB on NOTS: "Yes, unfortunately a lot of men do begin to feel very trapped in their relationships and I think, in some situations, it is because the female is so scared, perhaps of her insecurity, that she needs to hang onto him completely. In this song she wants to control him and because he wants to do something that she doesn't want him to she feels that he is going away. It's almost on a parallel with the mother and son relationship where there is the same female feeling of not wanting the young child to move away from the nest. Of course, from the guys point of view, because she doesn't want him to go, the urge to go is even stronger. For him, it's not so much a job as a challenge; a chance to do something risky and exciting. But although that woman's very much a stereotype I think she still exists today." Melody Maker, "Dreamtime Is Over", Oct. 16, 1982. - gaffa.org/reaching/i82_mm.htmlFrom its title, All the Love could've been The Dreaming's only straight love song, but the doleful remorse swamping the verse/chorus sections is suitable for what Kate describes as a lack of love song. She cites this one when I ask if any of the songs are about herself. "Some of them are definitely parts of me. I think All the Love definitely says something...Not necessarily the negative side of me but the self-pitying side. The way you look at human beings and yourself, and think we're just a heap of shit. If we weren't so scared of saying what we meant, it would be so much better. All the times you didn't say things to people, either because of pride, or rejection fears--that sort of thing. That may not be an example of my own life, but I felt it nearly happening. It's just a terrible feeling, the thought of people having gone without the right amount of feedback. I think that really fucks people up. There are loads of people who spend all day saying, 'What do you think?' I get an awful lot of feedback; even if it's negative it's better than nothing." - gaffa.org/reaching/i82_zz.html
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Feb 2, 2008 3:42:49 GMT
Thank you for taking the time to read all my posts, Tannis. I'm glad my Hermes/Hestia thing wasn't too far fetched! I was a bit worried about that, as I really don't know much about Greek mythology- I'm certainly interested in it now, though! I'll give a lengthier reply to this tomorrow, I think... I hope there will be a lot more posts in the future, too! And I hope you'll keep giving me feedback on them!
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Post by Al Truest on Feb 2, 2008 16:22:17 GMT
I'm beginning to see The Dreaming as something of a concept album. Me too. I had speculated about a reference to the seven deadly sins before, but if not a direct nod, it may be her struggle with inequity and injustice generally. This (my favorite album until "Aerial") is more about questions and conflict, it seems, than understanding and peace. I totally concur. It is a journey without a clear destination or sense of arrival (to me anyway) 'looking forward to more. The struggle with finding her concept here may also be that she indeed may have been unsure and troubled by the content and the unsolved conflicts that she was addressing. I enjoyed the ride nonetheless. "Aerial" seems to be the destination she was searching for in this her self-described 'mad' album.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Feb 2, 2008 18:32:06 GMT
Thanks for commenting, Al Truest. I definitely agree that Kate herself was maybe quite unsure about her new path and where she was heading in The Dreaming. It sort of seems like her artistic coming-of-age to me. I hope you'll take a look at my posts about the individual songs, too- I'd love to hear your thoughts about them!
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Feb 3, 2008 3:25:18 GMT
Here's a more complete reply for you, Tannis. "Today I listened to TD with your song cycle interpretation in mind and found it very interesting. SIYL does indeed map intellectual and spiritual chaos prior to beginning a journey of self-discovery. The cacophanous chorus of "Some say.." - like being overwhelmed in a library and not knowing which department to head for. X seems to settle for philosophical/theological pursuit (and maybe a trip to The Golden Triangle!); but with TGaT, X blunders into crime and is doing time with her distant memories; and with POTP has shapeshifted into The Enemy... These extremes stop her dead in her tracks, and SIG pulls her back to the reality of tending to her own spiritual garden."Exactly! I like the analogy of being in a library and not knowing what section to look in. I agree that X chooses a philosophical/theological path- though I would add also maybe an artistic one, which I think in a way deals with a lot of the same intellectual ground as philosophy and religion."Leave It Open seems to me to show the beginning of the process revealed in Suspended In Gaffa..." LIO attempts a cathartic escape from suspension. The song identifies the cause of the problem as "We let the weirdness in"; so maybe Side One of TD ends with a psychological breakthrough? ... Ordinary People (1980) - which incidentally also deals with drowning - also deals with psychological barriers and breakthroughs. Maybe X is moving forward... BTW, the Satanic "Leave it open!" finds echo in GOoMH ("Let me in!") and in WYWoM ("Let me in and don't be long!"), and echoes WH ("Let me in your window!"). I'm not sure if I think of "We let the weirdness in..." as the problem- I think it's almost the problem and the solution at once. To find what she so intensely desires, X must let the weirdness in. The weirdness gives birth to the mystical, the creative, the revelatory... But she also must balance this desire against her need for safety, peace, and the health and harmony of her mind. I think she must learn when to "leave it open" and when to "keep it shut." I do think Leave It Open ends with a psychological breakthrough. It's interesting that you'd link LIO and GOoMH- I've always felt that they were connected. "Side Two. 'The Dreaming' takes us to Walkabout (1971) territory. Australian Aborigines "go walkabout" at the age of thirteen in the wilderness for six months as a rite of passage; and for a brief period in the early 1960s the Bush family relocated to Australia, but less than a year later they returned to East Wickham... the Pull of Kate Bush! However, 'The Dreaming' is not a walkabout, but a drive-through safari over an exploited culture. The Western Civilizing Machine bulldozes the Aboriginal culture, a story telling of fear, entrapment and forced captivity.That's really interesting. I'd never heard of "going walkabout" and it does connect with TD in a way. Never knew Kate lived in Australia for a short time as a child, either. I guess in the context of the song cycle, I do see The Dreaming as a sort of walkabout. As a song in itself, I agree with you, though. "I like your idea of 'The Dreaming' as X's dream, taking her deeper into the unconscious. Artwork is Dreamwork, and dreams are the royal road to Freud's unconscious! ... "She is again a stranger who knows nothing of this mysterious ravishing land of light bouncing of the rocks to the sand..." Now this really does remind me of Walkabout (1971): In the film, the English children are stranded in the Australian desert. They meet an Aboriginal boy who helps them survive the outback. But the girl struggles with communication and comprehension. And when the Aboriginal boy begins a courting dance around the girl, she is frightened and shuts herself up in the house. The rejected Aborigine hangs himself from a tree during the night."This sounds like a very interesting movie. I'll have to check it out. "Your Hestia-Hermes analysis of NOTS is just great! Hermes: messenger, traveller; thief, lock-picker; wandering god of the information highway; traveller's guide in life and death; the masculine. And Hestia: reigning at the center of the domestic sphere; the interior, the enclosed, the feminine, the family line, and the retreat."Thank you! You know, Hestia is my favorite goddess, I find her really interesting. She's not talked about a whole lot, is she? But she's sort of at the invisible centre of everything."The wanting to retreat, to stay home, is very evident in the ghostly, tomb-like ATL... and 'Houdini' retreats us even further to the other side. 'Houdini' follows Night of the Swallow. In life, Houdini really was a returning swallow; but the 'You hit the water' brings to mind the forewarned 'swallow flying to Malta' (and of course water is a constant theme running through KB's work)... We pull you from the water! ... X returns with GOoMH - the Night of the Demon! - and we have another psychological breakthrough: keep the weirdness out (and keep Hermes at the front door of the house."Yes, I think of ATL as a longing for the comforting, peaceful qualities of Hestia. And I think of Houdini as a reconciliation of Hermes and Hestia again. But I haven't gotten there yet.. It is interesting how recurrent water is in Kate's work- it seems to have a very strong symbolism for her. Isn't if funny how certain people seem to have these strong symbolic connections to certain things, for instance Kate and water- I've also noticed that in Joanna Newsom's work a repeating symbol is bones- "and if you wanna come on down.. down with your bones so white.." and "come on home now, all my bones are dolorous with vines!" and "all my bones, they are gone gone gone.." Just a thought...
GOoMH does seem to be X's leaving Hermes out in the cold- I think it's her battle for reconciliation with him, because at the end does let him in. But I haven't gotten there either, yet... "Anyway, thank you Rosabelbelieve - and I look forward to reading your future posts... "Thank you so much, Tannis! I hope you'll keep posting here- I really enjoy your thoughts! Oh, and the weird colour thing is just because I couldn't figure out how to quote you. Could anyone tell me how?
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