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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Mar 30, 2008 1:00:30 GMT
Thanks Rosa, I feel like I said everything and yet nothing at all.
I'm tending to think that the whole song really does just represent a dream, which certainly makes sense given the title. A dream about the dreaming.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Mar 30, 2008 1:02:53 GMT
Well, I think the notion of 'dreamtime' is very important to the song meaning- that's what it really seems to me, a venture into the primal mythological realm, or the personal unconscious. And it's good to have some background information.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Mar 30, 2008 1:18:46 GMT
I forget to mention that, like Rolf Harris, I can play the didgeridoo. The technique definitely has a lot to do with breathing, because otherwise you'd have to keep stopping the whole time to pause for breath. I'll have to remember to bring a didgeridoo when I move to Europe in a month or two
--Paul--
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Mar 30, 2008 21:02:39 GMT
Cool. I love the way Kate has used the didgeridoo in her work, it's a very interesting instrument.
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Mar 31, 2008 4:43:51 GMT
Cool. I love the way Kate has used the didgeridoo in her work, it's a very interesting instrument. Oddly, I've never thought of using one in any of my own songs. What an oversight...
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Post by Barry SR Gowing on Apr 12, 2008 7:07:50 GMT
"The Dreaming" vs "Dreamtime"
Although KB correctly understood that these two terms can have the same meaning, and so she chose the one that might be able to be applied more generally (rather than to just Aboriginal art and culture), there could be another interpretation for her motives.
Dreamtime is the 'time before time'; the time when the world was first formed and before things became as they are now. Aborigines believe that the spirits of their remote ancestors, and other beings that lived in the Dreamtime, now inhabit the world around us in the landscape and the wildlife. In other words, these spirits originally helped to fashion the world as it now is, and still live on in various non-human forms.
Dreamtime is often also referred as 'The Dreaming'. However, the Dreaming can also refer to modern-day experience of Dreamtime stories, and specific aspects of Aboriginal culture. So for example a group of Aborigines may say they have 'Kangaroo Dreaming' because they feel a particular attachment to the stories connected to the Kangaroo spirits.
Here is a creation story from the Wonggutha people who live in the desert in South Australia, near the border with the Northern Territory:
In the beginning, the Creator, Jindoo-the Sun, sent two Spirit men, Woddee Gooth-tha-rra, to shape the Earth (Yulbrada). They were from the other end of the Milky Way. They fashioned the hills, the valleys, the lakes and the ocean. Near the end of their labour, Jindoo the Creator sent seven sisters, who were stars of the Milky Way, to beautify the earth with flowers and trees, birds, animals and insects
While the Seven Sisters were making the Honey Ants they became thirsty and they said to the youngest sister, "Go and look for some gubbee (water). Look over there, in the hills. Go that way". The little sister took a yandee dish and she went in search of water.
The Woddee Gooth-tha-rra, the two spirit men, were hiding in the bushes and were spying on these women. They followed the minyma Goothoo (the youngest sister) while she went for the water.
Soon the youngest sister fell in love with the two men. The other six sisters eventually went looking for their sister, because she had been gone for so long. They wondered where she might have gone. They were really very thirsty by now and needed that water. After a long search, they found her with the two spirit men.
The Creator, Jindoo the Sun, had warned them that should such a thing happen to any one of the sisters, she would not be able to return to her place in the stars. When the six sisters finished the remaining work, they returned to the Milky Way. The two men and the youngest sister remained here on Yulbrada, the earth. Their special powers were taken away from them by the Creator and they became mortal. They became the parents of the earth. They made our laws and our people: the desert people who live by these laws today.
This is why the people of the desert have such knowledge and respect for the stars in the sky.
On a more pragmatic note; these stories are an essential element of Aboriginal culture and are passed down from generation to generation. Aboriginals in other parts of Australia will tell other versions of the creation story which are more relevant to the landscape and wildlife in their area.
Aboriginal paintings also generally have a story to tell.
From an Aboriginal perspective, those white invaders who came into the countryside and started tearing things up must have appeared to be either insane, or else some kind of evil spirits. Why else would anyone want to destroy the land that we are part of? Thus, all the more reason to preserve the stories, the cultural memory, of the people of that land. I think this the landscape that Kate's song inhabits.
-- Paul--
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Post by Al Truest on Apr 12, 2008 11:33:30 GMT
Great posts paul ^ Thanks for the down-under low-down as well.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Apr 13, 2008 23:02:48 GMT
Agreed. I especially enjoyed the creation story- mythology is an interest of mine, and it seems to connect to Kate's work in so many ways.
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Adena
Moving
This time around we dance - we're chosen ones
Posts: 611
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Post by Adena on Apr 18, 2008 12:31:29 GMT
The Dreaming is known by the residents of Portland as 'Our Song'. From what I heard from Uncle Ken (Ken Saunders), he saw Kate performing once and he brought something back from the performance and bought a recording of The Dreaming single, which I have to say I was impressed by.
I really like the fact that Kate wrote a song about the Aboriginal people, and I think Uncle Ken and the Portland Aboriginal community were very touched by this song too. Kate touches so many people with the depth of her work that it's astonishing.
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Post by tannis on Jun 7, 2008 2:43:46 GMT
The video The Dreaming had been made in between press and radio and the trip abroad, and we were very lucky to be able to do all the shooting in one day. It was an extremely ambitious shoot, which included live birds, lasers, flying wires, people being buried completely under sand, not to mention a beautiful set which was built of polystyrene rocks, dead spikey trees and a cardboard moon and sun. As the hours rolled on, we were sure we would have to leave at least one idea out, but with a crew who were just as eager as us to see the film complete and as it should be, we worked on into the night--past the rope made of laser light and the painted men who walked out of trees to a mouth moving in the sand (all we can see of a man deep under the sand; somehow it looks remarkably like Paddy, and it's the last shot in our video). Kate's KBC article, Issue 13 (Summer 1983)gaffa.org/garden/kate15.htmlIn the video for The Dreaming, the choreography at 2:45 (on "The Pull of the Bush") clearly uses the line as a pun on the Bush name. And is that Paddy Bush dancing at the back?Kate Bush - The Dreamingwww.youtube.com/watch?v=0wkkuaTvIsoThe bits where they change to/from stone remind me of the 70s Children of the Stones (1977), a supernatural cult classic, regarded as 'the children's Wicker Man'. Children of Stones 1www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi2ujXLUm0c&feature=related
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Adena
Moving
This time around we dance - we're chosen ones
Posts: 611
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Post by Adena on Jun 9, 2008 10:14:37 GMT
My father kindly offered to find out what 'Oh re mikayna' means for all of us here. It seems to be a very elusive word...
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jun 9, 2008 16:47:19 GMT
That would be great, Adena. I've always wondered what it meant, myself.
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Post by tannis on Jul 12, 2008 5:23:03 GMT
SUN ARISE (1962) VS DREAMTIME (1982) ... "DREAMTIME": An instrumental version of the song The Dreaming, largely unchanged except for the absence of lead vocals, released as the b-side of the single version and unavailable elsewhere. What gave you the idea of doing a song with an Australian background? KB: "The stimulus started years ago, when Paddy bought Sun Arise by Rolf Harris; a unique and wonderful song. And for many years it has greatly disturbed me, the way 'civilised' man has treated ancient tribes such as the Aborigines, Red Indians, Tasmanians...and because of the beauty of the Aborigines' music and the way it seems to exude space, and the feeling of having great contact with the earth, I felt it was the perfect way to portray this feeling of invasion by white man." Is there any reason why you used a real dijeridu on The Dreaming as opposed to a synthetic one created by the Fairlight? Is it because there is the ability for greater tonal change with a real dijeridu? KB: "A Fairlight dijeridu was used to demo the song, but there is no comparison with the real thing, especially with an instrument like that when it is played by someone as brilliant as Rolf Harris. He was an absolute dream to work with, and so much more fun than a machine." Kate's KBC article, Issue 16gaffa.org/garden/kate18.htmlWas Rolf Harris more of an influence even then? Things like Sun Arise? KB: "Yes, I'd wanted to work with Rolf for two or three years, but when we did the last album, I had an idea for doing a song all about Australia, which would have dijeridus and all this sort of thing." 1982, Picture Disk, The Dreaming Interview gaffa.org/reaching/im82_pd.htmlSUN ARISE Rolf Harris/Harry Butler (1960)Sun arise, bring in the morning. Sun arise, bring in the morning, fluttering her skirts all around. Sun arise, she come with the dawning. Sun arise, come with the dawning, spreading all the light all around. Sun arise, on the kangaroo paw. Sun arise, on the kangaroo paw, glistening the dew all around. Sun arise, filling all the hollows, Sun arise, filling all the hollows, lighting up the hills all around. Sun arise, come with the dawning, Sun arise, she come every day. Sun arise, bring in the morning, Sun arise, every, every, every, every, day. She drive away the darkness, every day, Drive away the darkness, Bringing back the warmth to the ground. Sun arise, oh, oh, Sun arise, oh, oh, Spreading all the light all around. Sun arise, bring in the morning. Sun arise, bring in the morning. Sun arise, bring in the morning, spreading all the light all around."DREAMTIME" Kate Bush (1982)"See the light ram through the gaps in the land..." "See the light ram through the gaps in the land..."
Dreamtime... Dream-Dreamtime
"See the light ram through the gaps in the land..." "See the light ram through the gaps in the land..." "See the light bounce off the rocks to the sand..."
Dreamtime... Dream-Dreamtime
"See the light ram through the gaps in the land..." "See the light ram through the gaps in the land..." "See the sun set in the hand of the man..." "See the light bounce off the rocks to the sand..."
"See the light ram through the gaps in the land..." "See the light..." "See the light bounce off the rocks to the sand..." "See the sun set in the hand of the man..." rolf harris -- sun arisewww.youtube.com/watch?v=SGuxAs8HkZMThe Dreamtime - Kate Bush (Rare)www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsuJ2Y80k0A
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Post by tannis on Mar 31, 2009 13:27:21 GMT
FOR ROLFROLF HARRIS: I'm still recording. I'm trying to get a recording together with Kate Bush at the moment... Cause I've done a couple of bits on albums that she's done. She's so lovely, she's so shy and so quiet and keeps out of the limelight. But what a talent! Rolf Harris on The Ken Bruce Show, 30/03/2009, BBC Radio 2 www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00jg7x2 2:17:27...Does Rolf's comment mean that Rolf is in the studio working on his latest album, featuring a recording that he's just done with Kate Bush? Or does it mean that Kate is working on her next album, featuring Rolf Harris? Remember, Del was in the studio with "who-know-who" a little while ago. Or does Rolf's comment mean that he hopes to get a recording together with Kate Bush some time soon? If the latter, I wonder if Kate will fulfil his wish. Or maybe she's too busy running a household...Remember yourself. You've got a Full House in your head tonight Kate: Yeah, I have spend large amounts of time doing the washing. [Laughs] Some people find this amusing, but I actually do try to run a household, which people find very hard to get their heads around. I can't understand that, because to me it's perfectly normal. "The Return of Kate Bush", Entertainment Weekly (US), Michele Romero, November 11, 2005www.gaffaweb.org/reaching/iv05_entertainmentweekly.htmlRolf's 1962 record Sun Arise had a profound influence on the song 'The Dreaming', and Harris plays digeridu on that track. Rolf also has a big cameo on Aerial, playing the role of "The Painter".On a lot of English first pressings of vinyl records you can find an inscription in the runout area of the disc. Kate does not only know about the inscriptions, she even writes them, so most of them are of some significance. Here's a list of the inscriptions on the first releases of the vinyl editions: The Dreaming / Dreamtime: Side A: For Rolfwww.faqs.org/faqs/music/kate-bush-faq/
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Post by tannis on Aug 12, 2009 11:27:43 GMT
ALIEN PRESENCES: The Genius of the DerelictLight reading while filming on the Alien Planet set GIGER: "My paintings seem to make the strongest impression on people who are, well, who are crazy. A good many people think as I do. If they like my work they are creative... or they are crazy." (STARLOG/September 1979)Referring to the Cloudbusting machine, KaTe said that her team worked with some designers who'd worked on the Alien. This has led to suggestions that H.R. Giger was somehow involved in the inspiration or design process for the 'Cloudbuster' built by Ken Hill. It is further suggested that Kate's Giger-esque costume for The Dreaming video was designed by Giger or inspired by his designs.And, copyright considered, could the monster from the Experiment IV video have been inspired by Giger or The Giger Alien? Indeed, perhaps even the song's title took inspiration from Giger's Necronom IV... After all, as with the Cloudbusting machine, Kate has also mentioned the Alien alongside Get Out Of My House, suggesting the movie had something to do with the genesis of that song. And the teeth do look pretty similiar... ;D BTW, Percy Edwards was the voice of the alien in Alien (1979; alien vocalizator uncredited) and he provided sheep noises on Kate Bush's The Dreaming (1982), adding to the album's alien presences. Maybe KaTe requested the services of Edwards precisely because he had been the voice of the alien? ... In the Alien, The Nostromo is a towing vessel, hauling an enormous ore refinery and 20 million tons of raw ore. The ship is equipped with a MU-TH-R 182 model computer (called "Mother" by the crew, [stands for comfort]). In 2122 the ship is on a course returning to Earth from Thedus, using a form of FTL drive that requires the crew to spend most of the journey in hypersleep [suspended in gaffa]. While returning to Earth, Mother intercepts a transmission from an alien planet and wakes the crew [The Dreaming/We let the weirdness in]...
FAIRLIGHT: Some of the sound effects for the Alien film were created with help from the Fairlight, an early Australian-made digital sampler. Though the machine sampled at a now-laughable 8 bit resolution, the Fairlight then cost an astounding 30 thousand dollars (USD) and was state-of-the-art. Musicians such as Jan Hammer, Kate Bush, and Prince have used it extensively throughout their respective careers.Derelict interior with Kane (John Hurt) on his way to the egg chamber (Alien, 1979). The floor of the chamber—with the alien eggs under a layer of blue light (produced on the set with a pulse laser)—and the section of curved wall above it were fully constructed. "There's a layer of mist just covering the eggs that reacts when broken." ALIEN: The eggs are in stasis but they are alerted to the presence of nearby life forms by a blue laser signal which emanates from one of the egg chamber walls. Since this laser mechanism signal emanates from one of the walls, it is reasonable to assume that it has been placed there by the derelict on purpose, to alert the eggs for the presence of external life forms. If the derelict truly intended to warn space travellers about the danger of approaching, it should have also shut down any mechanisms which supported the eggs, rendering them benign. This gives credence to the hypothesis that the derelict is far from benevolent and was very likely intended as a bio-ship intended to "bombard" alien worlds with xenomorph eggs, probably in hopes of exterminating entire civilizations. The Genius of the Derelictioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/writing/Derelict.html Erase the race that claim the place And say we dig for ore, Or dangle devils in a bottle And push them from the Pull of the Bush... We all smiled again, and Kate asked me if I'd seen Alien. NME, "Wow, Wow, Wow, Amazing, Amazing, Ama--", Danny Baker, October 20, 1979gaffa.org/reaching/i79_nme.htmlKB: "I knew the beat from Sun Arise and Aborigine music, so we just ripped that off, used what was already there ethnically. Rolf just came in and did dijeridu." ZigZag, "Dream Time in the Bush", 1982gaffa.org/reaching/i82_zz.htmlTHE DREAMING: The video for Kate Bush's The Dreaming (1982) seems very much inspired by the Alien (1979): The pressure suits, the sun, the Alien Planet landscape, the blue mist, the blue laser signal, Percy Edwards' alien noises, the hatching stone eggs, etc. dramatically illustrate the alien presences of Occidental man colonising the Outback and ravaging the land and the cosmic system.RUMOUR: H.R. Giger (he designed the costume with the hoses Kate wore in the video for "The Dreaming")... www.rushmessageboard.com/cpmb/index.php?s=824d7187e8c26f7f6d6f53959097c2a9&showtopic=19036&st=300&p=1403006entry1403006The suit worn by KaTe in The Dreaming video looks suspiciously like a Nostromo Emergency Suit from the Alien (1979) movie. So did KaTe have contacts with Shepperton, Ash, or did she just rip-off Ripley? However, the suit was not designed by HR Giger, but was in fact a regular 1960s pressure suit! And maybe KaTe requested the services of Percy Edwards precisely because he had been the voice of the alien (and facehugger) in Alien (1979)! ... Alien (1976): A rare Nostromo emergency pressure suit seen throughout Alien. One is clearly seen at the end when Ripley climbs into the white space suit prior to blowing the Alien out the airlock. Also visible when Parker and Lambert are collecting coolant just before they both meet the Alien! In reality it was a 1960's pressure suit. It still has the pilots name on the back!RIDLEY SCOTT: "I was fascinated by various French illustrators, and one in particular, Jean Giraud— known as Moebius. I thought, my God, I'll get all these great illustrators!" For Alien, the whole crew, prior to production, was a vast art department operating in London. "It was then that I hired the production designer, an Englishman named Mike Seymour." In that unusual art department, a division of labor resulted. "As the film involves three specific aspects—the planet, everything to do with the alien and the Earth ship—we decided that any one of those elements should be a full-time job for a designer." Giger worked primarily on the alien and the planet; Cobb on the Earth ship Nostromo; and Moebius on costumes and space suits. STARLOG/September 1979see more: H. R. Giger & K. T. Bush katebush.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=houndsoflove&thread=1730&page=2 THE ALIEN JIGSAW: Experiment IV and Necronom IV katebush.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=tww2&thread=1819&page=3 Kate Bush - The Dreamingwww.youtube.com/watch?v=Wft1Dzw29QAAlien Part 4www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a-YtwiUJm4&feature=channelAlien: sex, violence, and death www.bluetanso.com/dgs-b7/Higher/Media/AlienStudy/Alien-Woman-Notes.txt An excellent essay on the Alien (1979)
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