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Post by Al Truest on Jul 1, 2005 3:16:20 GMT
Very interesting! I think Kate enjoys that each of us can get so many things out of her work on so many levels. I like the recurrent theme that you touch on about emotional reactions that circumvent rationale (intellectual levels) I see this as her most emotional work. She calls it her "Mad Album". As many of you know it is my favorite. Furthermore, "Pull Out the Pin" has always been my favorite track. What is more urgent than the struggle of life, and your way of life vs. death and change (or being wrong theologically)? This album is fraught with violation, fear, longing, frustration and impatience. If I were to have to pick a unifying theme to this project it would be the "Capital (or Deadly) Sins" Pride-greed-envy-wrath-lust-gluttony-sloth. These elements are writhing throughout all of these compositions. I don't know if that was intentional; but, they are there nonetheless. Theologically, from The Oracle at Delphi we get "Know Thyself" and "my own heart shows me the way of the ungodly" Well to start "Sat in Your Lap" sets the tone of awareness of one's shortcomings and the sloth, greed and envy that ignorance produces. Let me highlight the rest as not to get too lengthy here: "There Goes a Tenner" - greed, lust, envy "Pull out the Pin" wrath, pride greed, (blood lust) "Suspended in Gaffa" gluttony-envy-greed-sloth "Leave it Open" wrath-pride "The Dreaming" greed-envy-wrath-gluttony-pride "Night of the Swallow" lust-pride-envy "All the Love" envy "Houdini" pride-lust-envy "Get Out of My House" wrath-greed-lust
You may say this is a thin arguement, but answer this for me. The deadly sins are juxtaposed to these virtues:
Humility, generousity, love, kindness, self-control, temperance and zeal. Do you see any of these elements prevailing here? My theory is looking pretty good, huh? Please disagree or comment. Al I can see all these elements one by one. You're certainly not crazy... I would say Amen, only if you mean this as an addition to what "Luca" was saying, and maybe add that her subconscious message, willingly or not, is that of spiritual growth, learning and thurst for enlightment. Not to do so would limit the focus on the truth Kate was attempting to impart.
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Post by tannis on Nov 26, 2007 18:19:52 GMT
IMHO... POTP deserves to be in an anthology of war poetry... The song is as packed and explosive as a hand-grenade... full of the psychosis of war and violation. The song conveys, with existential intensity, the life-and-death living of the battlefield.
For the Việt Cộng, the war is purpose, definition, violation. All his senses are elevated and involved, like he's never felt alive before. Beyond fear, he has reached an historical, spiritual, life-through-death determined necessity. Psyched up, he can smell the west, smell their fear and mistakes, sniff them out like an animal riding the earth to hunt its quarry (or a 'deer hunter' after a trophy "coat"). This man's 'hit' is as deadly as it is Godly.
The song is (dis)located late in the war. The American Outsiders (pink-faced conscripted teenagers) are scared, mistake-prone, purple-hazed, out of their depth. Survival dominates pursuit. They don't understand the terrain or the 'why' of the war. They hit the ground, while he hits the high.
The poetry emphasises the ugliness and screwed-up nature of war... The VC's 'never been so happy'. He smells the child and learns to ride the Earth. The identification with the Viet Cong suggests a Rejection of Americanism/'Westernity'; and the theme of 'rejection' also seems to run through TD...
Contempt and disdain strike violence. There is no 'cult of honor' restraining the ferocity. The American represents the cologne-stinking, alien, charmed life of the West. And traditionally, the silver bullet is the only bullet effective against a person living a charmed life (wiki).
Moreover, the American's 'Western' life will end, whereas the VC's 'Eastern' life will not... In Buddhism, life does not end, it merely goes on in other forms. The VC has no fear of death for it leads to Karmic rebirth. Hence, the 'I LOVE LIFE' chorus is both a War Cry and a 'chant' to generate rebirth in a higher realm. The 'I love Life' affirms his acceptance of death in order to love life again...
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jan 15, 2008 0:27:51 GMT
Again, fairly obvious literal meaning. And again, metaphorical interpretation. After stumbling in There Goes a Tenner, X seems to me to have grown incredibly afraid of failure, and determined to eradicate all the weakness, all the unsureness and fear in herself. She is angry at herself for slipping, and relieved it was not worse. (I've never been so happy to be alive..) In fear of her experience repeating itself, she becomes a warrior. She decides to slay all softness and weakness and fallibleness in herself, ruthlessly and in hopes of reaching her desired knowledge. This goal possesses her so fiercely she is nearly prepared to sacrifice her human qualities of compassion and weakness in order to reach it. So, here, somewhat like in Fullhouse, I suppose, "I am my enemy.." The enemy is her weakness, her "old self" which made the mistake. The Fool. She wants to obliterate her own childish ignorance, her own unskillful past self. X has learned " to ride the earth..." to "use scent" and she scorns the person she was who did not know these things. Violently, she wishes to destroy it. This is an incredibly unhealthy thing to do. It would rend a horrible tear in the wholeness of her psyche. And even in her blindly bloodlustful bravery, with the supposed spiritual protection of the "silver buddha" on her lips, she knows this. She has thought of this fight as one for her spiritual survival, of her right to get to her goal, the right to become wise and continue successfully on her path. But instinctually she knows that the life and safety of all the things she does not admit to about herself, all the things in her that are innocent or weak or cowardly in her, is absolutely essential to real wisdom, to real wellbeing. "Just one thing in it- me or him, And I love life!" I love life! is the cry both of her warrior-self and her whole self, both her brutal determination to move forward towards the great victory of her spiritual goal at all costs, and her innocent, attacked childself, desperate to remain whole, to remain safe. There is an intrinsic paradox in crying "I love Life!' as a warrior, as someone aiming to kill another being. Those who love life- the whole of life- work to sustain it, in all places. Not to destroy it in others and possess it selfishly. X has tried to characterise her opponent as stupid and worthless- someone "big and pink and not like me. He sees no light, he sees no reason for the fighting." Someone bloated and clumsy and vilely ignorant. But in the end she is forced to confront her compassion, which flares up with as much astonishing strength as her calculations and her brutality. And in the end, the passionate scream of "I love life!' triumphs, and the voice telling to her to "pull out the pin..." seems no match for it's lionlike roar. So she begins to accept herself....
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Post by Al Truest on Jan 15, 2008 2:27:28 GMT
^ This used to be my favorite Kate Bush song (Sunset is now) Thanks for the comments. I'll say more later.
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Jan 16, 2008 23:13:27 GMT
I'd love to hear your thoughts, Al Truest. Also, as I reread this, I want to make clear that this song cycle is very much a supplement to the songs meanings individually- I have many other thoughts on POTP that don't fit into this. These ideas are new and still forming, too- I hope I didn't make anything sound too absolute. There's more coming, too...
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Post by tannis on Mar 9, 2008 0:31:36 GMT
Hello Rosa... I re-read your posts on [green]THE DREAMING[/green]. They are remarkably perceptive. Now the album seems like 10 Tarot Cards! And I found this:In 1994 Oohlalune on the gaffa list (dating back to 1985!!) came up with the idea of a Kate Tarot deck, keeping the symbolism as much intact as possible. That might be an interesting project... I extracted the proposed Kate Bush examples from the mentioned gaffa discussion thread here: The usual symbolism could be replaced by icons from songs and videos, not to mention the main character, Kate herself. This method leaves out several traditional symbols for the Fool card, including the little dog and the cliff. [green]"Sat In Your Lap" cover - the Fool, The World[/green]Kate in the lifejacket (TNW) - The Hanged (Wo)Man Kate in the Lion costume for Strength. The four Angels from Lily - Judgement "Lily" - The Crone unfortunately no video for Jig of Life. ("Hello old lady, I know your face well ... It belongs to me.") "Hounds of Love" - The Moon [green]"Houdini" - The Magician[/green] "Babooshka" - the High Priestess (duality) "This Woman's Work" - Strength [green]"Get Out of My House" - The Devil, The Tower[/green][green]"Night of the Swallow" - Seven of Swords (which works well as a "plan that might fail giving rise to quarrel")[/green] *"Lily" - The Hierophant "Wuthering Heights" - The Devil Deeper Understanding - The Hermit The Big Sky - The Fool Cloudbusting - The Chariot (in keeping with the "controlling forces of nature" theme) [green]Pull Out the Pin - Ten of Swords[/green] **- jroller.com/darkcycle/date/200402[purple]* Aeclectic Tarot on Seven of Swords:[/purple]A thief sneaks off with 5 out of 7 swords. This is the "Thief" card. It implies that someone is stealing something from you, your honor, your ideas, your time. They may be spreading gossip about you. How to take control of this situation? You have to be equally sneaky. Sometimes, to win a race or battle, the Charioteer must direct his horses around instead of straight on. You may feel like you want to go charging in, be confrontational, but this is not going to work. That is the out-of-control solution which will allow the thief to play the innocent. To catch a thief, you must be a thief. [purple]** Aeclectic Tarot on Ten of Swords:[/purple]"A man dead with ten swords in his back. It is a nasty looking card. Sometimes everything just... goes... wrong. And this is a card that lets the Querent know that, yes, things are as bad as he fears. The troublesome swords can't get much worse than this, with bad things said about the Querent, ruin of their lives. But as the fellow in the card indicates, the swords have done their worse. You can't be more dead. It is over." see more:- www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/meanings/
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Post by rosabelbelieve on Mar 9, 2008 18:24:35 GMT
Thank you Tannis. I am rather proud of some these, so I'm very glad someone's taking the time to reread them. The Tarot cards idea is very interesting- I think I even did mention The Fool in the SIYL one. I think it fits very well.
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Post by tannis on Sept 30, 2009 0:27:06 GMT
I love life! I love life! I love life!—Pull out the pin!Around the arch, virtually everyone wore an anti-war button and many carried home-made signs:
PEACE NOW WORK FOR PEACE I LOVE LIFE—STOP THE WAR END IT NOW ~ The New Nixon, Paul Hoffman, 1970, p.67.Hal Boyle, AP's Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist, had a revealing interview one day with a Vietnamese soldier, a Catholic, who had a pretty clear idea in his mind of why he was fighting. Wrote Boyle: "Some men fight out of hate; some fight out of love. Nguyen Van Ham, a sturdy, handsome 23-year-old Vietnamese sergeant, fights for both reasons. " 'I hate the Viet Cong, and I love my country,' he said. 'I have killed three Viet Cong. When I shoot them, I don't know why, but I feel very good. I love life very much because I am young. It looks to me like a rose. But I don't know how it will be later.'" ~ No Place to Die: The Agony of Viet Nam, Hugh A. Mulligan, 1967, p.99.
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Post by orgone on May 16, 2011 14:18:45 GMT
I love this song, and I understand most part of its contents and the general meaning, since I'm not an English speaker it is harder for me to find meaning to many of Kate's songs. But I don't get the title, "Pull out the pin" what is exactly the meaning of this expression?, what does it come to your mind when you listen the verse" I'm pulling out the pin"?
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Post by Al Truest on May 16, 2011 16:36:26 GMT
I love this song, and I understand most part of its contents and the general meaning, since I'm not an English speaker it is harder for me to find meaning to many of Kate's songs. But I don't get the title, "Pull out the pin" what is exactly the meaning of this expression?, what does it come to your mind when you listen the verse" I'm pulling out the pin"? This battles as my favorite Kate song (with 'Sunset' intermittently in the top spot) Pull out the Pin is the action that precedes detonating a hand grenade. Metaphorically and perhaps actually it is about the life or death conflict of cultures. The American soldier is depicted as not knowing what he was fighting for or about. The clash of cultures and the harsher killing fields of Asia draw this distinction. The Vietnamese soldier often wore a silver Buddha on a chain. In battle or near death scenarios he would put the silver bullet in his mouth to save his soul if he were to die. Conversely his metaphorical silver bullet could vanquish his enemy. The passion in the delivery of th lyric "I love life" is chilling. It truly brings meaning to the gravity of war and misunderstanding.
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Post by Adey on May 17, 2011 18:40:44 GMT
I love this song, and I understand most part of its contents and the general meaning, since I'm not an English speaker it is harder for me to find meaning to many of Kate's songs. But I don't get the title, "Pull out the pin" what is exactly the meaning of this expression?, what does it come to your mind when you listen the verse" I'm pulling out the pin"? This battles as my favorite Kate song (with 'Sunset' intermittently in the top spot) Pull out the Pin is the action that precedes detonating a hand grenade. Metaphorically and perhaps actually it is about the life or death conflict of cultures. The American soldier is depicted as not knowing what he was fighting for or about. The clash of cultures and the harsher killing fields of Asia draw this distinction. The Vietnamese soldier often wore a silver Buddha on a chain. In battle or near death scenarios he would put the silver bullet in his mouth to save his soul if he were to die. Conversely his metaphorical silver bullet could vanquish his enemy. The passion in the delivery of th lyric "I love life" is chilling. It truly brings meaning to the gravity of war and misunderstanding. I personally love the scope, the intention and the ambition of Pull Out The Pin, far more than I love the actual song as recorded. I know it's magnificent, but if I'm pushed for time it's a track I'll skip on occasions. My failing, not Kate's. Can't argue with Sunset though..
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Post by orgone on May 18, 2011 9:19:27 GMT
Thank you guys!, now I understand much better the meaning of the song, I like it even more. I've been reading a lot about this album, "The Dreaming", and I read that critics misunderstood it and it didn't get high sale rates. I couldn't believe it, it is probably the best Kate's album. I now compare it with Melville's Moby Dick, when it came out the critics thought he went mad and the book didn't sell very well. Now as we all know it is considered his masterpiece and one of the best novels of American literature. I also think that both "The Dreaming" and "Hounds of Love" are very similar in many aspects, but in the first one, Kate didn't put any limit on her creativity while in the latter I think she tried to make it more accesible to the general public.
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