There Goes A Tenner

[ketman]

Jul 12, 2008 1:44:22 GMT Al Truest said:

But the reference, if I am correct, is to the portraits on the notes. i.e. of politicians. Remember when we would vote for him? Maybe Tannis can pull up some references to the political overtones here. e.g. IRA captives in 'Strangeways' prison...

This is a very obscure song, and I doubt that any interpretation that sticks too closely to the literal would get us anywhere. It seems to be a parable of some sort, whose layers of meaning are too deeply buried for me to disinter at least. But I've read the previous posts on this thread, and I think people are following a false scent. If anyone during my lifetime had so much as suggested putting a politician's head on a banknote, there'd have been the most stupendous row. As far as I recall, the only historical personages getting on banknotes (other than the monarch) have been people from the arts, or scientists, or humanitarians - Dickens, Elgar, Brunel, Florence Nightingale - people like that. But definitely no politicians. An exception might have been made for someone so far back that no one alive could have voted for him, e.g. Lloyd George, or else someone whose stature was so great as to transcend party politics altogether, which means no one except Winston Churchill. But I don't recall either of them on a banknote. The Duke of Wellington got on the five pound note (the "fiver") about twenty years ago, but he qualified by virtue of his military exploits, not his political career, for which he is not held in high regard in any case.

I'm also 90% sure that no one except the Queen had their head on any banknotes at all until the 1980s, though I don't know how to verify that. Possibly the first case (and I think Wellington was the first) occurred before The Dreaming (1982), but more likely it was after. But Kate could not have made a mistake about it. She would have known very well that there were no politicians' heads on banknotes, and never had been. Also, it's something of a mystery why she is referring to ten-shilling notes at all, since they had disappeared at least a decade before the song was written.

I don't think there's much mileage in trying to link the song to real historical events, but if people are determined to find one, then I would say the best candidate is the defection from the Labour Party in 1981 of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill Rogers. They left the Party in the belief that it had been taken over by left-wing activists, and was now unelectable. They founded a new party called the Social Democratic Party, which has since merged with the Liberal Party. The press called them the "Gang of Four", consciously echoing the label given by the Chinese Communist Party to a senior political group on the losing end of the internal struggle for power in China in the 1970s - including Madam Mao, the widow of Mao Tse Tung. In their case, the "Gang of Four" label was meant to imply criminal activities. Obviously, politics in Britian was a less apocalyptic business than in China - and safer. But still large sections of the Labour Party looked on the defectors as traitors, and that bitterness followed them for the best part of two decades - until, in fact, Tony Blair pulled the Party so far to the right as to put the Gang of Four well to left of party ideology.

That's one image to hold on to. Another related image is that of the incompetent gang, which conjures up British movies of the 1950s, particularly the Ealing comedies - The Ladykillers, The Lavender Hill Mob, The Wrong Arm of the Law, etc. Kate has confessed to finding a lot of inspiration in the cinema, and she almost certainly saw all those movies. And we know she loved Monty Python, and is bound to have seen the Piranha Brothers sketch. Dinsdale and Doug Piranha were quite obviously based on the real-life Kray twins, Ronnie and Reggie, who terrorised the East End of London in the early 1960s without actually getting any richer. They never quite worked out how to do that. See the two parts of the sketch here:-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZkWL-XvO0U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-FDW1shmqA&feature=related

The alert viewer will spot the phrase "What's all this then?", which is uttered twice in Tenner.

Do I think any of this helps us tease out the meaning of the song? No, it explains hardly anything. But ridiculous as it is, it still isn't as ridiculous as the idea that the song is connected to Irish republican activity. Where on earth did that come from? Strangeways has been a prison for a century and a half. It has no particular history connected to Irish terrorism, no more than any other prison, like Wandsworth or Brixton or Dartmoor. And there is nothing else in the song to suggest it. That's most definitely a dead end.

So what Kate means by "That was when we used to vote for him", is still a complete mystery for me. But I'm thinking about it.

[Al Truest]

I will reply to this later. You are, I think, nonetheless mistaken about Strangeways - from what I remember reading - not incarcerating IRA members with any greater efficacy. 'Ridiculous' I find to be insulting however. We should feel free to debate without becoming smug or petty. 'Verbose is quite alright.

[Al Truest]

My contention is that none of us know exactly what any of these lyrics mean with any certainty. Speculation is part of what is entertaining about art. There can be a myriad of meanings. At least one other fan that I found had the same thought about an IRA connection:

Song Meanings songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=54728

Theresa Gionoffrio:

"The protagonist is arrested/questioned/imprisoned (Gaffaweb alludes to the pun about Strangeways Prison*) When released the money is obsolete (dated?) The mentioned actors and schilling notes suggest that the robbery took place 30/40s (also the band sound and cinematic Oh-Oh's?) So I think 'remember him' refers to Sir Oswald Mosely (1896-1980)"

Google:

By 1922, Mosely was ready to leave the Conservative Party over its Irish Policy which had created the Black and Tans and supported the violent repression of Irish Nationalism. Mosely, of Irish decent himself, sat the next two years as an Independent., eventually joining Labour in 1924...-

In 1932 Mosley met Benito Mussolini in Italy and founded the British Union of Fascists...in 1836 he married Diana Mitford in Goebbel's drawing room, with Adolf Hitler one of only six guests...

I'm not sure how she arrives at humour here; but she is free to speculate all she wants. Hitler has popped up before ("Heads We're Dancing)

* gaffa.org/dreaming/td_tgat.html

1169andcounting.blogspot.com/2004_09_05_archive.html Statistics on IRA prisoners executed (enough prior to the speculated time line to lead viable consideration that the robbery was a (fictional) fund raising effort for the cause..Why is 'The government' not finding the money important instead of just the police. It sounds like money for terrorism or political activities. A bunch of rabble - not professional thieves are the henchmen - so not out of the realm of possibility IMO)

Yes this proves nothing other than it is ridiculous to call the thoughts of others ridiculous. Especially when you refer to me.. I can ban people.

EDIT: I apparently used the same source as Tannis here. But I have made some independent observations.

[tannis]

KATE BUSH: A star in strange ways...

KB: "I think that as a very young child, perhaps I aspired to becoming something like a great actress."
The Tony Myatt interview (1985)
gaffa.org/reaching/im85_tm.html

There Goes A Tenner: Petty crooks with IRA sympathies?

KB: "It's about amateur robbers who have only done small things, and this is quite a big robbery that they've been planning for months, and when it actually starts happening, they start freaking out. They're really scared, and they're so aware of the fact that something could go wrong that they just freaked out, and paranoid and want to go home."
1982, Picture Disk, The Dreaming Interview
gaffa.org/reaching/im82_pd.html

Okay, remember...

The song opens in the act of remembering, and we are transported back in time to the start of a crime...

We're waiting.
We're waiting.
We're waiting...

Waiting for what? Are they waiting for the safe to blow? Are they waiting for political change vis-a-vis Ireland (as perhaps suggested by the video swing-o-meter pendulum)? Are we back in the present, with them 'doing time' and waiting for their heavy prison sentence to end? Or maybe We're Waiting for Beckett's Godot?

KB: "One of the bits in the song is all about waiting, and how the first time they're just waiting for something to go wrong, and the second time they're just waiting for the guy to blow the safe up, because when he blows it up, there is so much that could go wrong. It's a dance routine that's based on waiting. - It's just all these ideas of people waiting. And the rest of the dancers are all acting out what the story says, really. It's not so much a dance at all."
1982, Picture Disk, The Dreaming Interview
gaffa.org/reaching/im82_pd.html

Three beeps means trouble's coming...

'The Troubles' consisted of about thirty years of recurring acts of intense violence between elements of Northern Ireland's nationalist community (principally Roman Catholic) and unionist community (principally Protestant). The years 1970-1972 saw an explosion of political violence in Northern Ireland, peaking in 1972, when nearly 500 people lost their lives.

I hope you remember
To treat the gelignite tenderly for me...

Gelignite, also known as blasting gelatin, is one of the cheapest explosives. Gelignite was used by the Irish Republican Army in Ireland's fight for sovereignty during the Irish War of Independence. Years later it was also used by the Provisional IRA during the early years of their revolutionary campaign against British forces and Loyalist Paramilitaries in Northern Ireland.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelignite

Both my partners
Act like actors:
You are Bogart,
He is George Raft,
That leaves Cagney and me.
("What about Edward G.?")...

Humphrey Bogart, James Cagney, Edward G. Robinson and George Raft played mobsters, gangsters, crooks and tough guys wise to the ways of prison. In their flicks, heroes were criminals.

In Shake Hands with the Devil (1959), James Cagney played Sean Lenihan, an Irish Republican Army commander:
"In 1921 Dublin, the IRA battles the "Black & Tans," special British forces given to harsh measures. Irish-American medical student Kerry O'Shea hopes to stay aloof, but saving a wounded friend gets him outlawed, and inexorably drawn into the rebel organization...under his former professor Sean Lenihan, who has "shaken hands with the devil" and begun to think of fighting as an end in itself. Complications arise when Kerry falls for a beautiful English hostage, and the British offer a peace treaty that is not enough to satisfy Lenihan."
Plot summary
www.imdb.com/title/tt0053272/plotsummary

The government will never find the money...

KB on TGaT: "It's about amateur robbers who have only done small things, and this is quite a big robbery that they've been planning for months..."
1982, Picture Disk, The Dreaming Interview
gaffa.org/reaching/im82_pd.html

In your typical robbery, the police do the investigating. So KaTe's use of the word "government" (and her later use of "vote") is clearly a strong, loaded political reference. [In the 2004 Northern Bank robbery, the gang seized £26.5 million in pounds sterling. The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and the British and Irish governments claimed the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) was responsible. The robbery, and the allegations and counter-allegations surrounding it, threw the Northern Ireland peace process into crisis... The government will never find the money... Following the raid, the Northern Bank announced that it would recall all £300 million worth of its banknotes in denominations of £10 or more, and reissue them in different colours with a new logo and new prefixes to the serial numbers. The first of these new notes entered circulation on March 11, 2005.]

Responding to the 1981 Irish hunger strike, Thatcher famously declared "Crime is crime is crime; it is not political." But in TGaT, KaTe very much links the crime with politics through the use of "government" and "vote". Indeed, the final line, "That's when we used to vote for him", might also reference Thatcher; i.e. That's when we used to vote for him and not her! . . .

I've been here all day,
A star in strange ways.
Apart from a photograph
They'll get nothing from me,
Not until they let me see my solicitor...

"They'll get nothing from me" - interrogation; intelligence about other operations/activists?

Strangeways and the IRA: The Black and Tan War began in January 1919; within months, the British had captured a number of what they considered to be 'diehard' Republicans, and decided that it would be safer for them to hold those prisoners in England. Thirteen IRA prisoners, under the command of Austin Stack, found themselves incarcerated in Strangeways Prison - but none of them wanted to stay!

The men were serving sentences ranging from six months to two years, and all of them had heard about the then recent (March 1919) jail-break from Mountjoy Jail in Dublin, when twenty IRA prisoners used a rope ladder to escape. Austin Stack decided this was their best bet , and he contacted IRA GHQ Staff in Dublin to outline his plan.
1169andcounting.blogspot.com/2003_05_18_archive.html

In September 1919, Rory O'Connor and Peadar Clancy were sent over to England to help organise the break-out. Messages were sent out from inside Strangeways, to O'Connor and Clancy by the IRA prisoners themselves as they were released, and those still inside the prison were kept up to date by messages passed on by visitors and notes concealed in food parcels. By late September 1919, only six IRA prisoners remained in Strangeways; Austin Stack, Piarais Beaslai, Dr. Patrick Walsh, Paddy McCarthy, Con Connolly and Sean Doran.

On October 15th, 1919, the six IRA prisoners escaped from Strangeways Prison. Michael Collins had taken a particular interest in the escape, and actually visited Austin Stack in the prison to finalise the arrangements. The six men were met on the other side of the prison wall by about thirty IRA Volunteers who had placed themselves at both ends of the street and held captive everyone on the street at that time. 'Safe-houses' in Manchester had already been arranged and the six men were lodged in same and left there for a number of days; they were then moved to Liverpool and put on a B+I steamer - all arrived safely in Dublin.
1169andcounting.blogspot.com/2003_05_25_archive.html

Strangeways Prison has a central dodecagonal hall, with wings A to F radiating off from it. So the "A1, A2,..." whisperings on TGaT could count 'A' Wing cells?

"A star in strange ways..." - maybe the protagonist became a notable inmate.

A star in strange ways
gaffa.org/sensual/p_tgat2.jpg

Ooh, I remember
That rich, windy weather
When you would carry me,
Pockets floating
In the breeze...

There Goes A Tenner is a remembrance of things past and present; and these lines might suggest a childhood memory of "home", i.e. Southern Ireland/Eire...

KB on TGaT: "They're really scared, and they're so aware of the fact that something could go wrong that they just freaked out, and paranoid and want to go home."
1982, Picture Disk, The Dreaming Interview
gaffa.org/reaching/im82_pd.html

Ooh, there goes a tenner.
Hey, look! There's a fiver.
There's a ten-shilling note...

The Famous 'Lavery' 10 Shilling (10/) Note
www.emerald-isle-gifts.com/images/articulos/bnl004.jpg

Date on first notes: 10/9/28
Date on last notes: 6/6/68

In 1921 the Irish Free State was established. After several years it was decided to reform the currency issued in Ireland. In late 1927 the ‘Note Committee’ petitioned Sir John Lavery to provide a portrait of an archetypical Irish Cailín to adorn the notes. In a letter to Bodkin dated 30 December 1927, Lavery states that the Committee asked ‘that I should design a head for them, preferably I take it, one of my wife’ to be used on the new Irish currency. Hazel, Lady Lavery (1880 – 1935) was Sir John’s second wife. Lady Lavery was the daughter of an American industrialist, Edward Jenner Martyn of Chicago. Lady Lavery was a renowned beauty of her time, and was reputed also to be a secret lover of Michael Collins.

The final portrait shows ‘Cathleen ni Houlihan’ leaning on a Cláirseach (Irish harp), supporting her chin in her hand. She is dressed in simple Irish clothing, with the lakes and mountains of Ireland in the background. As it transpires, there are two portraits of ‘Cathleen ni Houlihan’ that appear on the banknotes. Sir John’s complete half-length portrait, with Lady Lavery supporting her chin in her hand, appears on the 10-, 20-, 50- and 100-pound notes. A smaller portrait of Lady Lavery’s head and shoulders, without her hand on her chin, appears on the 10-shilling, 1- and 5-pound notes.

It is intriguing that the portrait on the Irish banknotes is now universally acknowledged as ‘Lady Lavery’ whenever the notes are discussed. The depiction of an American on an Irish note is a far cry from the object of the Currency Commission, which requested an archetypical Irish girl, and perhaps further still from the Irish heroine, Cathleen ni Houlihan, that Sir John Lavery intended to depict. However, from the correspondence to Thomas Bodkin by Lavery and his wife, it is possible to deduce that Bodkin always desired Lady Lavery’s image on the notes, despite the official request for the Cailín.

All 'Lavery' notes depicted a river mask on the reverse of the note. The 'River God Masks' were copies of the masks adorning the Customs House in Dublin. The 10 Shilling 'River Mask' is one of the River Blackwater. All 'Lavery' notes were bi-lingual, English to the left and Irish (Gaelic) to the right. There were 302,600,000 of these notes issued, most were exchanged for the 50p decimal coin in 1971.

Lady Lavery 10/ Note
www.coinlink.com/Articles/banknotes/lady-lavery/

There's a ten-shilling note... It seems ironic that an intriguing portrait of an American Lady on an Irish banknote should break the TGaT code...

Remember them? ...

Remember them? The 'Lavery' 10 Shilling (10/) note? And could the line also refer to forgotten 'heroes' of the Irish cause? KaTe could be subverting the "Ode of Remembrance". Or she could even be quoting Patrick Pearse.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them...

The Mother
by Padraic Pearse

I do not grudge them: Lord, I do not grudge
My two strong sons that I have seen go out
To break their strength and die, they and a few,
In bloody protest for a glorious thing,
They shall be spoken of among their people,
The generations shall remember them,
And call them blessed;
But I will speak their names to my own heart
In the long nights;
The little names that were familiar once
Round my dead hearth.
Lord, thou art hard on mothers:
We suffer in their coming and their going;
And tho' I grudge them not, I weary, weary
Of the long sorrow---And yet I have my joy:
My sons were faithful, and they fought.

That's when we used to vote for him...

Sir Oswald Mosley (1896-1980)?
By 1922, Mosley was ready to leave the Conservative Party over its Irish policy which had created the Black and Tans and supported the violent repression of Irish Nationalism. Mosley, of Irish descent himself, sat the next two years as an Independent, eventually joining Labour in 1924... If "him" refers to Mosley, this brings even more dark humour to the song: In 1932 Mosley met Benito Mussolini in Italy and founded the British Union of Fascists; and in 1936 he married Diana Mitford in Goebbels's drawing room, with Adolf Hitler one of only six guests at the ceremony! I guess Mosley forgot his Irish sympathies (as the gang forgot about the gelignite); and the protagonist is ironically remembering wasting votes (and effort) on a political let-down!

TGaT is 'historical'. The events take place long before the outbreak of the Troubles. Maybe these guys are just disaffected lads who turn to crime. But maybe they had been 'voting' against the mainstream UK government to effect democratic change in its stance vis-a-vis Ireland?

1916 saw the Easter Rising and execution of Pearse et al at Kilmainham Gaol (now a heritage museum). Then came the 'Old IRA'; the Black and Tans; Michael Collins and the Irish Civil War; Mosley's defection; etc.

In the 1930s, the 'anti-treaty IRA' attempted a bombing campaign in Britain in an effort to end partition. The World War II period also saw attempts to gain financial and military support from Nazi Germany and German Intelligence (wiki).

If "him"/Mosley is correct, the song ends with the protagonist reflecting on his High Hopes/Great Expectations - his 'democratic' vote for Mosley was just another false hope in his "miserable life"!

That's when we used to vote for him...

Neville Chamblain?
28th May 1937 - Neville Chamberlain succeeds Baldwin as Prime Minister.
29th December 1937 - Irish Free State is abolished, and replaced by sovereign state of Eire.
"...Negotiator Chamberlain called his Anglo-Irish bill an "act of faith," admitted he had granted generous terms to Eire to gain her friendship. In Eire it was announced that Neville Chamberlain will spend a fishing holiday this summer in Galway—the first visit of a British Prime Minister to Ireland since 1916" - TIME, Monday, May 16, 1938.
29th September, 1938 - Chamberlain, Adolf Hitler, Edouard Daladier and Benito Mussolini signed the Munich Agreement!

That's when we used to vote for him...

Mosley? Chamberlain? ... or "and not Thatcher! . . . "[/b]

Thatcher became Prime Minister on 4 May 1979. In 1981, a number of Provisional IRA and Irish National Liberation Army prisoners in Northern Ireland's Maze Prison went on hunger strike to regain the status of political prisoners. Bobby Sands, the first of the strikers, was elected as a Member of Parliament (MP) for the constituency of Fermanagh and South Tyrone a few weeks before he died.

That's when we used to vote for him... Note the emphasis on "him". I think this line might also be saying "Remember when we waited for the democratic process to effect change? The politicians didn't listen! So now there's the Troubles, the Dirty Protest, Thatcher, Bobby Sands, etc. etc."

A film about the last six weeks of Bobby Sands' life called Hunger, by artist Steve McQueen, starring Michael Fassbender, premiered at the 2008 Cannes Film Festival, winning the prestigious Caméra d'Or award for first-time filmmakers.

Trailer - Hunger - Michael Fassbender - Film - Bobby Sands
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS7Vt1vWjPE

Apr 17, 2005 17:52:22 GMT Al Truest said:

Being a 'star' at Strangeways' would imply, though, a sympathy for an apparent anti-government stance. Conversely, have an interrogator shine the 'spotlight' implies that everyone's attention is focused on the noteriety of the culpret. Duality of meaning, as in for example the works of Shakespeare, makes for more complex and meaningful art.

Also, Scott - The ''O.K. Remember'' line seems to have dual meaning as well. First, they must all remember to follow their plan. ''We've just half an hour to get in and get out'' and ''Three beeps means trouble's coming'' However, this line could also set the stage for a more meaningful interpretation of the lyrics. Consider that it may set up what is asked in the last line of the song. ''Remember them. We used to vote for him'' I take this last line as a nostalgic wish for better political climate. Portraits on the fivers and tenners represent past political leaders. ''Okay Remember'' sets the stage, i.e., O.K. Remember why we're doing this....This whole robbery could have been to raise money for a cause such as the IRA, as perhaps is also an underlying theme in 'Night of the Swallow' as well.

KATE BUSH: A star in strange ways...

There Goes a Tenner was the third single to be released from The Dreaming. TGat was only issued in the UK and Night of the Swallow was an Ireland-only single; again suggesting a political subtext of a divided/violated Ireland to The Dreaming. TGaT was released 2 November 1982, but due to lack of media interest it became the only song by Bush not to chart in the UK. If TGaT is really a tale about an IRA job prior to The Troubles, imagine seeing Maggie Thatcher's face had it reached Number One . . .

KaTe conceals her intent with comic treatment. An over-enthused outfit who don't have the gelignite sussed! The black 'Ealing comedy' is just great - act like actors; needs mummy; poetic alliteration; and the way the exasperated protagonist regards himself as a more authentic criminal over the "rabble" (yet the voice-over thinks he's also acting like an actor, E.G.!) IMHO, The song is about 'actors' trying to (literally) bust through walls, with the political subtext of a divided/violated Ireland.

When released from prison (in reality? or in his hallucinatory melancholic mind?) the protagonist recovers the stash of money. I guess the real or imagined hoard includes valid legal tenners and fivers (ten pound notes and five pound notes), and an obsolete Lady Lavery 10/ Note which arrests the protagonist's attention and gives him pause to Okay remember...

We're waiting
We're waiting
We're waiting...

[tannis]

KATE on THATCHER

I: So tell me, how would you vote in an election, if there was one in the next week or two?
KB: "That's something I wouldn't want to say. I think it's a very personal thing, voting. I also think it's a crazy situation we are in, where there is not much choice. You look at the people who are up there, who we have to choose between--Is that really a solution? I don't think it is at all, is it?"
I: So what's your opinion of Margaret Thatcher, then?
KB: "I don't feel I am a political thinker at all. I don't really understand politics."
I: On the other hand, you must have opinions about her.
KB: "About her. I don't know, I don't know what I think of her, or any of them. I think it's incredible, really, don't you, the people we have to choose between?"
I: I think that there is a shocking limitation in what they aspire to.
KB: "Also, there's the big fib that everyone has, that they do aspire to these things--but it's just a promotional thing, to get them to number one! And even if someone in that position wanted to help, could they? Could they? Because they are so tied in by the whole bureaucracy of the thing, it's like a big game that's much deeper than it looks, really."
I: But Margaret Thatcher--She has basically attempted to dismantle the Social Welfare system.
KB: "That's horrific, that's really terrible, the hospitals... But I don't know if there is anyone besides her at the moment who would really do it better, would they? I don't know, I wish there was, it would be good. It would be great to stop National Health going down the drain--It's disgusting to think of people having to die because they don't have the facilities to care for some people. But the unemployment thing is--I don't know. I don't like what governments do, but I can't talk about individuals because I don't know enough about them. I really don't. I'm ignorant."

KATE on IRELAND

That cloud, that cloud--
It looks like Ireland.
C'mon and blow it a kiss now...

I: What's your reaction to Ireland?
KB: "It's beautiful, totally beautiful. There are so many different kinds of landscapes and beauty. It's so wonderful just hanging around the coast and watching it change. It's always dramatic, stepping back into the last century. It has a real sense of magic. And the people are so fantastic, so warm, so wistful. I really do like Ireland a lot. It's one of the few places apart from England where I'd ever think of living."
I: Were you ever north of the border?
KB: "No, never."
I: Would you like to go?
KB: "Yes, I would."
I: You've no reservations about it?
KB: "I think everybody that's English has hesitations. You can't help but be conditioned. It happens everywhere, and I would very much like to go over, and certainly without having experienced--to understand the reality of it and not the illusion that's created by people."
I: Was your mother republican in her attitudes?
KB: "I don't think that's something I want to talk about. You should ask my mother that."
I: I just wondered what kind of an impression of the relationship between the North and the South, the English and the Irish you'd been given.
KB: "Totally by media, and by the IRA--that's what the English person thinks of as soon as you mention Northern Ireland. Definitely, people being bombed and shot, and a very military kind of scene with lots of repression and perhaps the English not being too welcome there. This is the impression that we have."
I: As a child, were you aware of the border? Were you aware of the tensions that existed between the English and the Irish historically?
KB: "My mother's picture of Ireland was of her home, and no further than that--literally. And that is where her heart is. And all her memories and the things she says of home are just beautiful. I think it has definitely affected my attitude toward Ireland. That's why I feel so at home, why I love it so much. I can feel my mother everywhere there."

see more:
Hot Press, "The Private Kate Bush" (1985)
gaffa.org/reaching/i85_hp.html

[Al Truest]

Jul 13, 2008 9:42:36 GMT tannis said:

IMHO, the There Goes A Tenner thread is far from a ridiculous read...

Apr 17, 2005 17:52:22 GMT Al Truest said:

Being a 'star' at Strangeways' would imply, though, a sympathy for an apparent anti-government stance. Conversely, have an interrogator shine the 'spotlight' implies that everyone's attention is focused on the noteriety of the culpret. Duality of meaning, as in for example the works of Shakespeare, makes for more complex and meaningful art.


Thanks. I'm glad you have my back. I sometimes don't always recall what's been posted earlier when I respond to a post. But I assume whomever is posting would have read to that point. Nonetheless, once again you being thorough is enjoyed and appreciated.

Also, Scott - The ''O.K. Remember'' line seems to have dual meaning as well. First, they must all remember to follow their plan. ''We've just half an hour to get in and get out'' and ''Three beeps means trouble's coming'' However, this line could also set the stage for a more meaningful interpretation of the lyrics. Consider that it may set up what is asked in the last line of the song. ''Remember them. We used to vote for him'' I take this last line as a nostalgic wish for better political climate. Portraits on the fivers and tenners represent past political leaders. ''Okay Remember'' sets the stage, i.e., O.K. Remember why we're doing this....This whole robbery could have been to raise money for a cause such as the IRA, as perhaps is also an underlying theme in 'Night of the Swallow' as well.

Plausible? For me it is.
Defintive? No
Ridiculous? Of course not.

We can be a bit touchy here.

[rosabelbelieve]

^ Agreed. The speculation is fun, and enlightening, though of course it never is definitive. what would be ridiculous would be claiming that it was, IMO.

[tannis]

Kate Bush - Gaelic Song
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpMGWOAAKs4
From the album 'Common Ground: Voices Of Modern Irish Music' (1996)

Mná na h-Éireann ("Women of Ireland")

Ta bean in Éireann a phronnfadh sead damh is mo shaith le n-ol
Is ta bean in Éireann is ba bhinne leithe mo rafla ceoil
No seinm thead; ata bean in Eirinn is niorbh fhearr lei beo
Mise ag leimnigh no leagtha i gcre is mo tharr faoi fhod

Ta bean in Éireann a g ead liom mur bhfaighfinn ach pog
O bhean ar aonach, nach ait an sceala, is mo dhaimh fein leo;
Ta bean ab fhearr liom no cath is cead dhiobh nach bhfagham go deo
Is ta cailin speiriuil ag fear gan Bhearla, dubhghranna croin.

Ta bean a dearfadh da siulann leithe go bhfaighinn an t-or,
Is ta bean 'na leine is is fearr a mein no na tainte bo
Le bean a bhuairfeadh Baile an Mhaoir is clar Thir Eoghain,
Is ni fhaicim leigheas ar mo ghalar fein ach scaird a dh'ol.

"Women of Ireland", or Mná na h-Éireann in Irish, is a song composed by Seán Ó Riada. The words are written by Peadar Ó Dornín. Usually it falls under the category of Irish rebel music. It honors the memory of the women dedicated to Ireland, specifically the Irish nationalist movement. Kate Bush recorded a Sean nós rendition for the 1996 compilation, Common Ground - The Voices of Modern Irish Music.

The Chieftains version of the song features prominently on the soundtrack to Stanley Kubrick's 1975 film Barry Lyndon, which KaTe ranked among her Top Ten Castaway Films:

BARRY LYNDON
KB: "Not too much to say about this film, except that I love the story and the whole atmosphere of the film. It's just a picture that moves me emotionally."
Popular Video, Kate's Desert Island films (1983)
gaffa.org/reaching/i83_didf.html

[tannis]

Cody Jarrett: "Made it, Ma! Top of the world!"

She knows that I've been doing something wrong,
But she won't say anything.
She thinks that I was with my friends yesterday,
But she won't mind me lying,
Because

KaTe seems fascinated by crime and exaggerated Oedipal complexities. The Kick Inside is her most explicit treatment, but forensic psychology runs through a lot of KaTe's work; e.g. The Infant Kiss, Mother Stands For Comfort, Cloudbusting, and also There Goes A Tenner, Night Of The Swallow, Houdini, and Heads We're Dancing...

KB on TGAT: "For me, Cagney is one of the greatest actors that has ever been. I just couldn't believe his acting in White Heat."
KB on NOTS: "In this song she wants to control him and because he wants to do something that she doesn't want him to she feels that he is going away. It's almost on a parallel with the mother and son relationship where there is the same female feeling of not wanting the young child to move away from the nest."
Melody Maker, "Dreamtime Is Over", Paul Simper, Oct. 16, 1982
www.gaffaweb.org/reaching/i82_mm.html

KB on Houdini: "This was another side of him. His mother died, and he was really, really close to her, like really close. And when she died he needed desperately to try and communicate with her through a medium, and he just came across all these people who were basically making money out of the art of pretending to speak to the dead, and when he realized all these people were just basically ruining peoples' lives just to make some money he decided--in a very positive way--to show that they were frauds and tricksters."
The Dreaming Interview, from CBAK 4011 CD, (picture disk)
www.gaffaweb.org/reaching/im82_pd.html

Both my partners
Act like actors:
You are Bogart,
He is George Raft,
That leaves Cagney and me.

White Heat is a 1949 crime film starring James Cagney. It is considered one of the classic gangster films. Cody Jarrett (James Cagney) is the ruthless, deranged leader of a criminal gang. Although married to Verna (Virginia Mayo), Jarrett is overly attached to his equally crooked and determined mother, 'Ma' Jarrett (Margaret Wycherly), his only real confidante. When he has one of his splitting headaches, she consoles him, sits him on her lap and gives him a whiskey with the toast, "Top of the world." It is revealed that Jarrett's father died in an insane asylum.

The character of Cody Jarrett was based on New York murderer Francis Crowley, who engaged in a pitched battle with police in the spring of 1931 at the age of 19. Executed on January 21, 1932, his last words were: "Send my love to my mother."

You blow the safe up.
Then all I know is I wake up,
Covered in rubble. One of the rabble
Needs mummy.

Jarrett intends to steal the payroll at a chemical plant in Long Beach, California, using a large gas truck as a Trojan Horse to get in. The police surround the building and Evans calls on Jarrett to surrender. Jarrett then flees to the top of a gigantic gas storage tank. When Fallon shoots Jarrett several times with a rifle, Jarrett starts firing into the tank and shouts, "Made it, Ma! Top of the world!" just before it goes up in a massive explosion.

On top of the world,
Looking over the edge

White Heat Trailer
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx8Eq0GbZ2o
The psychopath criminal Arthur 'Cody' Jarrett (James Cagney), who has Oedipus complex, and his gang rob a fortune from a train killing four people. In order to escape from the gas chamber, he confesses another crime in another state and is sentenced to two years in a prison. The secret agent Hank Fallon (Edmond O'Brien) assumes the identity of Vic Pardo and shares the cell with Cody, trying to find where the money is. When Cody's mother is killed, he escapes from prison with three criminals and Vic to catch the killer. He considers Vic his baby brother, and is betrayed in a heist of the safe of a chemical plant.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0042041/plotsummary

You talked me into the game of chance.
It was '39, before the music started,
When you walked up to me and you said,
"Hey, heads we dance."
Well, I didn't know who you were
Until I saw the morning paper

Hitler's psychopathology has also been psychoanalysed, revealing strong Oedipal attachments.

Binion's explanation of Hitler begins with a classic oral trauma and includes Oedipal material in arguing that Hitler's relationship with his mother was a "breast-and-mouth incest" that "unsuited him for any normal erotic relationship". Hitler slept with his mother's picture over his bed and claimed that he could not marry because he was married to the Motherland. The ultimate outcome of his Oedipus complex was violent and murderous, because just after he finally did marry, after resigning as Führer, he poisoned his wife and shot himself while the Fatherland, which he alone called the Motherland, went up in flames.
A Cultural History of Causality: Science, Murder Novels, and Systems of Thought, Stephen Kern, 2004, pp.83-4

You bring me so much joy
And then you bring me
More joy

According to Patrick Hitler (Adolf's nephew), Adolf's father (Alois) used to beat his children mercilessly. In public, by contrast, he was a model citizen whom fellow villagers respected. This ambiguous father figure left Adolf lacking a suitable role model and in confusion (Langer, 1973). Hitler's relationship with his mother (Klara) at first was close. Since a number of her offspring had died as infants, she lavished attention on Adolf who consequently began to feel 'chosen'. Unfortunately the relationship between mother and son was upset by two traumatic events. One was that the infant Adolf witnessed his parents having sex; the other was that a baby brother was born (Langer, 1973). Now Hitler was left confused about the relationship between himself and his mother. He responded by repressing his emotions throughout much of his childhood, especially his adolescence, and by transferring his feelings about his mother onto the German nation. When Germany was defeated in 1918, it was as if Hitler's mother had been subjected to sexual assault once again and in Pasewalk hospital (where in October and November 1918 Hitler was treated for the effects of a gas attack) he suffered 'hysterical blindness and mutism' (Langer, 1973). Nonetheless, survival of the war confirmed Hitler in his feeling of being 'chosen'.
Hitler: study of a revolutionary?, Martyn Housden, 2000, p.168[/b][/color]

Mark: Were you always reluctant to be a celebrity right from the beginning?
KB: Ah, but I don't think of myself as a celebrity. I don't think I am. To me that's a dirty word, really.
Mark: Well, reluctant to be a pop star or reluctant to be famous.
KB: I don't like pop star either.
Mark: I know you don't, you've laughed. Famous. You can't argue with famous.
KB: Infamous, I would prefer.
BBC Radio 2, "Talking with Kate", August 5, 2006
www.gaffaweb.org/reaching/iv06_bbc2_Mark_Radcliff_Talking_with_Kate.html

in·fa·mous
1. Of very bad report; having a reputation of the worst kind; held in abhorrence; guilty of something that exposes to infamy; base; notoriously vile; detestable; as, an infamous traitor; an infamous perjurer.
False errant knight, infamous, and forsworn. --Spenser.
2. Causing or producing infamy; deserving detestation; scandalous to the last degree; as, an infamous act; infamous vices; infamous corruption. --Macaulay.
3. (Law) Branded with infamy by conviction of a crime; as, at common law, an infamous person can not be a witness.
4. Having a bad name as being the place where an odious crime was committed, or as being associated with something detestable; hence, unlucky; perilous; dangerous. "Infamous woods." --P. Fletcher.
Infamous hills, and sandy perilous wilds. --Milton.
The piny shade More infamous by cursed Lycaon made. --Dryden.
Syn: Detestable; odious; scandalous; disgraceful; base; vile; shameful; ignominious.

[stufarq]

I don't think the names of the actors necessarily date the events of the song. They were all actors associated with crime and gangster films so they're appropriate to the theme of the song.

"What's all this then?" is a common cliche (I think originating from TV series Dixon Of Dock Green) associated with police. On seeing something suspicious, a policeman would (supposedly) say "'Ello, 'ello' 'ello. What's all this then?" or something similar.

Mar 21, 2005 11:18:37 GMT MALCOLM XERXES™ said:

I took “That’s when we used to vote for him” to be in reference to the bloke whose physiognomy adorned the 10 shilling note,

That would be the Queen. She doesn't have to be voted for. And apparently she's a woman. Same goes for Britannica, who appeared on the note before the Queen. It is a slightly odd line but I've always taken it just to mean that such an old banknote would evoke a memory of the time it was from. Considering Kate's own explanation of the song, I don't think there's any need to be looking for anything more complicated than face value.