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Post by Al Truest on Sept 4, 2003 2:39:54 GMT
In lieu of, or at least 'til someone else formulates a response here, I'll post another evolutionary French group' - 'Sixun' At the heart of the band are the drummers: Paco Sery (A Parisienne from The Ivory Coast, and arguably one of the best drummers in the world) and Manolo Badrena (longtime Zawinul Syndicate and Weather Report percussionist) You can find their CD's in Europe and rare clips online. Here's a link of the two of them combining on an unbelievable track from a '98 Zawinul Syndicte concert. Link= www.loinkie.net/Zawinul/Recorded_Performances.html or find @ Amazon Keyword "Bimoya" (from the "World Tour CD, NOT 'My People, 'cos that version sucks) scroll down to the "Bimoya" clip, then click on the 'Realaudio' icon. It's one of my all time favorite percussion tracks. The clip is too short. If you like the sample, buy the "World Tour" 2 CD set, you won't regret it. The obscure connection to Kate Bush here is the reported use of 'congas' on her new album. These percussionists are from the same lineage as Peter Erskine, who has laid down his tracks for the new Kate project.
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 4, 2003 3:10:25 GMT
Another thread I was considering was actresses who sing. Here's the thing though, all but one of the candidates I was thinking of are French. Since I don't think they can stand up to a month's worth of discussion, so I'm going to include them here:
* Catherine Deneuve * Jane Birkin * Isabelle Adjani * Bridget Bardot.
Daamn, those French women are beautiful, but can they sing? You tell me.
It's a stretch to connect any of these to Kate Bush, other than Kate being such a 'visual artist' and an 'actress' in her own rite. I would like to draw comparisons to creative urges and how they get expressed. Also I'd like to discuss why we as the public are often unwilling to accept artist's who are multi-talented. Are we too petty to reward them for their skills in more than one arena? Can you name more than a few outside the "theatre" who are equally praised for their singing and acting prowess? And do you think Kate was rebuffed for 'daring' to act in her own production of "The Line, the Cross and the Curve"? I don't think the critics, not to mention the public, are quick to accept boldness in our (especially female) icons.
The other actress I had in mind was Milla Jovovich. She has more (musical) talent than these others combined. She is also the most influenced by, and like Kate, so I'll include her music in next month's list "Striking Resemblence"
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 5, 2003 14:42:32 GMT
Please post your responses to this thread soon. The new list will be posted on 9/15/03.
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Post by Xanadu on Sept 10, 2003 1:12:52 GMT
Poor Al, sorry this has taken so long. I know you get impatient, but I just want to give the topic as much thought as it deserves, since you put so much time in. I had some difficulty with the links, but that was probably due to some error on my end (I have a somewhat older Mac, and am in a perpetual struggle for dominance with it!). However, I really tried some alterative routes and contributed some from my own collection. I do see the connection. My first real exposure to Kate Bush was through Peter Gabriel and Games Without Frontiers, and before I knew who she was, I referred to her as a “French” singer! More specifically, when I worked on a video editing project years ago, I used that song as background. When a teacher asked who she was and what she was saying, I said “Jeux Sans Frontieres, and a French singer.” I wonder if Kate might have been flattered according to your theories here? Enough rambling, on to the songs... 'Coffee Homeground’ : Definitely a French cabaret sound, and a very old theatrical use of vocals here. Probably to give the European drama and touch on the period for which it was written. Pure Victorian melodrama! 'Hammer Horror' : I can’t say that I have much knowledge of or have had much exposure to mime, except for Kate Bush. I found it strange at first, but loved it later. As to being familiar with the essence of Hammer Horror, as is the films, I can see the theatrical drama Kate tries to use here. The Victorian repressed sexuality that is evident in the original horrors novels is only truly shown in these versions of the films, and Kate makes reference to this in the song and video. As to it’s French origins, probably the romance and flair. 'L'Amour looks Something Like You' : She also uses the term “boudoir” also in this song, furthering the French reference. I think the French influence here is not only the musical arrangement, but the very setting that is constructed in the lyrics. To romanticize the act of a sexual encounter, which these few tracks on TKI together represent, Kate turns to European romantic imagery - the night, the mask, the wine, the boudoir, the lace, the black water, etc. to seduce her. It could be love, but it’s something more passionate. 'Ne T Enfuis Pas ('Don't Fly Away') & 'Un Baiser D Enfant' ('The Infant Kiss') & 'Games Without Frontiers' : I group these since obviously Kate sings in French here. But this is part of my theory as to her choice to sing in French occasionally. Kate Bush, being an unusual artist (understatement), tries to convey the importance of each level of the creative process. This is why I posted the question as to what we believe was the most compelling aspect of her career. I do believe that they are inexorably linked, but just for fun I wanted to see what we’d pick. To write a song in English, and being Kate, the lyrics are of an incredible importance. So much so that in fact she insisted on the full lyrics being printed it the albums. But, I believe her choice to sing a song in another language places the importance on the musical compositions - as in ‘Infant Kiss.’ One can appreciate the beauty and talent when the understanding of the lyrics is removed. And furthermore, when something as potentially sinister as ‘Infant Kiss’ or ‘Games Without Frontiers’ in sung in French (usually regarded as a mellifluous language) the edge is softened. Think about this in terms of the story in ‘Experiment 4’ to see my concept. Kate had once mentioned (in an interview) that she enjoys the musical level that fans sometimes appreciate her songs. Such as ‘TMWTCIHE’ or ‘Army Dreamers’ sounding quite like a lovely lullaby. But she is excited by the prospect of others hearing the unusual concepts of the songs and being moved by them. To take the songs and show them in three different ways - lyrically, musically, and visually - is the ultimate level of understanding her art. What do you think? ;D
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Post by Xanadu on Sept 10, 2003 1:16:02 GMT
Alright, I think I’ll post my response to this separately, but close since I think they relate. I want to let the Kate Bush analysis stand as it is. As for the other links, I did listen to the few I could, however, to compose a theory based on a short listen is difficult for me and requires a far more extensive listen. So, I chose to expand on your suggestions and contribute some of my own. I would post the links here, but I did find that obtaining musical links was difficult. Maybe Al’ can suggest where I should look. So, on my part, I listened and watched anything and everything I own with a French/ European flair this week. Coincidentally, that included some French singing actors/actresses: Les Parapluies De Cherbourg (The Umbrellas of Cherbourg) & Les Demoiselles De Rochefort (The Young Girls of Rochefort) both musicals by French Composer Michel Legrand and starring Catherine Deneuve Aspects of Love by Andrew Lloyd Webber Let’s Make Love, including singing by Yves Montand 8 femmes, including singing by Catherine Deneuve, Isabelle Huppert, Emmanuelle Béart, Fanny Ardant and Ludivine Sagnier. ...and many others I can’t think of at the moment. My conclusion is that most actors/actresses can’t sing and dance, and that most singers and dancers can’t act! I’m exaggerating here, but it is rare that someone is extemely talented in all three. Even Catherine Deneuve was dubbed (although does sing on her own CD from the 1980’s), as well as Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady. In each case, an actor is chosen to convey a particular aspect crucial to the film. He/she is an incredible dancer, so the singing may suffer (Fred Astaire), or a great singer (Julie Andrews) is passed over for Audrey Hepburn being that she is a bigger star. During the strict Hollywood Studio days of the 1930’s and 1940’s, young talent was found and taught to speak, act, sing, dance, duel, and h*ell, even to walk. But, the truly talented would always emerge... I agree that we are unwilling to reward multi-talented artists, particularly women. As a society, we will lavish praise and attention on those of questionable talent, since we are aware that we have created them and we can destroy them. What is truly frightening to many is someone who is intensely talented in their own right, and even more so with women. Men can be appreciated for their success, but women most continually prove themselves beyond their appearance. To answer your question about being equally praised for many talents, I think there have been a very few worthy and even fewer of those recognized. Some major stars leap to mind like Gene Kelly or Frank Sinatra, but both men. Women are usually regarded as somehow dangerous. I could go on here, but if anyone is interested, I suggest “Complicated Women - Sex and Power in Pre-Code Hollywood” for an interesting read. It put forth that there was a time women were empowered, from about 1920 to 1935, and allowed to be as complex , intelligent, and powerful as men, but feminine. But, that was always to much for society to handle. So women have been relegated back to either ingenues or vamps, and haven’t successfully made the transition yet. I think Kate was overly criticized for her choice to act, dance, sing and direct TL,TC,&TC. I feel it’s truly brilliant, but perhaps needed more development. Kate herself is good, but she didn’t exactly intend to be an excellent actress, and I think she was overextended. I have never thought that she considered herself to be a great actress, but she was probably the only person who could convey that character, since she created her. However, the ambition and innovation behind the project was amazing. So, did I do alright, Al? I'm sure you have much to add, but I wanted to get my posts in under the wire.
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 10, 2003 2:40:04 GMT
Thanks for the wonderful response 'Zan. Yes, I am somewhat impatient sometimes, but I just can't wait to read the kind of posts like your preceding one's.
I can't begin to do justice to all of your points in one post. For now I will appreciate your contribution to my intitial point about the "French' influences in Kate's artistry. Furthermore, your insight about how society treats our idols is spot on.
So let me commit to going over your points and suggestions, I will respond before the 15th. And please, the rest of you, pick-up the conversation here. Add your thoughts and agree or disagree with the observations made here.
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Post by Xanadu on Sept 10, 2003 18:25:19 GMT
There was one theory that I did forget to post with the others. I do think that French singers/actors can be forgiven for their lack of ability due to their style. That's why I mention the soundtrack to 8 Femmes (or 8 Women from 2002). None of these women can really sing, and they very nearly speak most of what's sung. But how incredible it is! I just can't get enough of Deneuve's 'Toi Jamais.' I hate to say that I have succumbed to the beauty of the French language, but somehow anyone speaking or singing could be reciting the phone book, and I am hooked. The direct comparison I made last week was with my soundtrack to 'Let's Make Love' starring Marilyn Monroe and Yves Montand (French). Both Montand and Frankie Vaughan sing the title song, and although Vaughan is a talented recording artist, he doesn't have the flair and romance of Montand. I also did the same with Alison Moyet's 'Hometime' since on the website she has clips of 2 songs on the album sung in French. In both cases the French version were far more emotional and seductive. So, another thought here is that somehow British, French and other European actors/actresses can be appreciated in a role just for the respect that is inherent in their heritage. Their class and flair is always apparent. And as for singing, the British seem somehow more educated and the French more romantic and coy. Not in all cases, but I do see a trend. Anyone see this? I'll even go so far as to say that 40's singer Zarah Leander can even make the German language sound seductive with her very style. So perhaps it's style and not the actual speaking of the language that's the key. Either way, there is certainly something uniquely attractive about these actors. Any other theories?
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 12, 2003 14:38:47 GMT
Any other theories? Your provovative comments and astute observations did peak my interest. I was immediately reminded of my studies in root-languages.
Indo-European Mother-Tongue is the probable root of all modern western language. It is theorized that 'Nostratic', the prevailing language of nomadic people in Europe. had no words to describe domesticated animals. Being for more 'civilzed' people; this 'Mother-tongue' was parent to all the derivitives such as English, German, Celtic, etc.
The romance languages of say French, Italian. Spanish and Portuguese, I would theorize, have not been as adulterated. Tradition and proper elocution, I would maintain, have been preserved. The fluidity of these is apparently more poetic than the staccato of American English, or the colloquial British C-ockney. Similarly, the uneducated dialects of Appalachia, or the eubonics of urban communities, some of whom wish to distance themselves from 'mainstream' forms of communication, have further modified how we speak. Popular culture adopts slang on a regular basis.
'Proto-World' may be the root of all languages; but, after the distillation process, some languages just sound better than others. Practicality and brevity often sacrifice the poetry of expression. So out of utility, ignorance or laziness; some of us have butchered the beauty of speaking eloquently.
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 14, 2003 15:05:17 GMT
I am preparing next month's list. However, I'm not through exploring this topic. There will be a response soon to your points 'Zan, and I believe 'Sto usually comes in just under the wire. (I hope so, I know he's busy)
The new playlist will have some great links. Stay tuned (Mon. the 15th)
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 16, 2003 1:23:04 GMT
Alright, I think I’ll post my response to this separately, but close since I think they relate.....I listened and watched anything and everything I own with a French/ European flair this week. Coincidentally, that included some French singing actors/actresses: My conclusion is that most actors/actresses can’t sing and dance, and that most singers and dancers can’t act! I’m exaggerating here, but it is rare that someone is extemely talented in all three. I agree that we are unwilling to reward multi-talented artists, particularly women. As a society, we will lavish praise and attention on those of questionable talent, since we are aware that we have created them and we can destroy them. What is truly frightening to many is someone who is intensely talented in their own right, and even more so with women. Men can be appreciated for their success, but women most continually prove themselves beyond their appearance. To answer your question about being equally praised for many talents, I think there have been a very few worthy and even fewer of those recognized. Some major stars leap to mind like Gene Kelly or Frank Sinatra, but both men. Women are usually regarded as somehow dangerous. I could go on here, but if anyone is interested, I suggest “Complicated Women - Sex and Power in Pre-Code Hollywood” for an interesting read. It put forth that there was a time women were empowered, from about 1920 to 1935, and allowed to be as complex , intelligent, and powerful as men, but feminine. But, that was always to much for society to handle. I think Kate was overly criticized for her choice to act, dance, sing and direct TL,TC,&TC. I feel it’s truly brilliant, but perhaps needed more development. Kate herself is good, but she didn’t exactly intend to be an excellent actress, and I think she was overextended. I have never thought that she considered herself to be a great actress, but she was probably the only person who could convey that character, since she created her. However, the ambition and innovation behind the project was amazing. OK. As I previously stated, I agree with most of your observations 'Zan. I also agree that your last two responses are related; just as this thread has come full circle - as I hope to tie up into a tidy package that segues right into the next playlist. Where I somewhat disagree with you is that most artists (that attempt branching out) do not excel in more than one or especially two disciplines. Furthermore, I don't necessarily think women (with talent)* are given less consideration than men. I know that sounds pretty bold, but hear me out, as I will also try to bring in the "French Connection" here. Much of my theory is based on how the French view sexuality and morality. Take for example Joesphine Baker, an American who enjoyed adoration and success in France. Her provocative performances were scandalous here (in America), where she would have never gotten the opportunities. This even in the so-called 'Golden Age'. Madonna does not come close in comparision to Ms. Baker or Marlene Dietrich (OK German ) in pushing the envelope. or more importantly living the lifestyle. Madonna uses our repressed sexual perceptions to exploit our shame or guilt to her advantage. She manipulates the social consciousness for profit, not to engage in progressive dialogue. The French in particular allow their stars to shine regardless of sex appeal. How else do you explain Bardot, Adjani, Beart, Deneuve, Birkin, etc enjoying musical careers there? (or at least getting record contracts) We in the US have several stars that wish to branch out, not all of them women. Kevin Bacon, Billy Bob Thornton, Keanu Reeves, Russell Crowe, Eddie Murphy and so on. These guys have turned down acting roles to tour with their bands. Some of them are actually very talented. See I think that it is the sexuality of EITHER gender that prevents these stars from being taken seriously. We objectify those with good looks of both genders (well Eddie Murphy's just too funny to be taken seriously ). We had rather idolize them than affirm them for their humanity. Bebe Neuwith, Nicole Kidman and countless others don't get a chance other than on Broadway or in a film related performance. Oh but since *Barbara Striesand is not all that 'sexy', we'll let her succeed. Bjork has also found some praise as an actress, but do we consider her a sex symbol? Furthermore, you don't see Britney Spears or Madonna get accolades for their acting abilities (or at least the fair chance to grow, without being ridiculed). My final example is my bridge to the next playlist. Milla Jovovich is sexy and beautiful. We reward her for her modeling, as a Revlon/ L'Oreal pitchwoman, even as an actress. These are all mainly visual endeavors. But she does not get the critical acclaim she deserves as a singer/ muscian/songwriter. Much as it is with Kate, whom has proven herself a talented actress in all her video characters.; but we are too unwilling let her grow. I guess we are threatened by strong women (see I do somewhat agree with you on the female quotient) or by people with just too much d**n talent. Check out this link of Milla Jovovich performing a 'French influenced' song titled "Charlie": www.millanews.com/milla/millaindex.htmlthen go to multimedia and click on JukeBox Milla. This is from her "Divine Comedy" CD of '94. Written @ age 14 performed @ age 16. She plays guitar and dulcimer, performers a Ukrainian folksong ("In A Glade') and wrote most of the songs) (this is a great website, there are lyrics to follow along with the songs) I will also transition right into the next playlist where Ms Jovovich will be one of three artists with a "Striking Resemblance" to Kate Bush.
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Post by Xanadu on Sept 17, 2003 20:33:15 GMT
Quote Zan: (this post was edited in error, please note that the reply's are from Al Truest)
I think common connection with "The French Connection" and the actors who sing is a European or at least not an American one. Particularly with women. Each of the women you mention have enjoyed a certain success in Europe. But what of the ones in the U.S.?
Reply: Oh, I agree. I believe that Americans objectify their sex symbols of both genders; but; women in society as a whole ARE objectified more. (my original comparison was confined to men and women in the arts)
This exploitation is partly through media saturation of female sexuality being used to sell beer and cars, to an unhealthy or un-natural view of human sexuality by society in general. Even the acting success that Milla Jovovich (using a previous example) has enjoyed was not without controversy here. Luc Besson, her then husband (French, BTW) produced her first film role, "The Fifth Element" Moreover he lost a more prominent director for her portrayal of "The Messenger" (Joan of Arc) because of his choice of her as the lead character. European women have a considerable edge in upward mobility. Compare the roles of women in politics, the arts and in international affairs of Europe and the U.S. We're ahead of the Middle-East but not quite up to the cultural standards of Europe (in my meager opinion)
Zan:That's probably what I am considering. Women are still not allowed much area for growth, the proverbial "glass ceiling" in America. Both of us are from the U.S. and the Midwest, so let's take our own experiences with open-mindedness and consider that in terms of women's equality in the whole of society. You have mentioned that you are trying to reject stereotypes about your home and people, where do you think that begins? I know I have had many discussions with people in the Midwest and they are just unable to respect and understand these concepts. Not everyone, just the majority.
Reply: I believe that their is often a grain of truth in many stereotypes. There are people in the southern United States that are bigots or ignorant on many levels. This is also a truth of a percentage of people everywhere. It is grossly unfair to lump everyone together though.
Attractive women have so often been portrayed as ditzy or dumb. In a male-dominated media, this stereo type suited the purposes of creating fantasy about passive women who think like immature men (with no mind of their own). Look at all the older man younger woman portrayals. In the absence of fame, money and power, these relationships rarely exist. Forgive this final Milla example; but, she rebuffed Mick Jagger's overtures toward her. I think that speaks highly of her, and makes him look ignorant, thus proving my point. Right? (except for the fact that he's British!, but as I said, a certain percentage of ignorance and bigotry exists everywhere)
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 18, 2003 2:26:00 GMT
Sorry Zan, instead of replying, I've apparently edited a post of yours. I just now noticed it. I can restore it though, I'd just like to wait til you have read my comments. Thanks
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 18, 2003 6:34:46 GMT
Quote Zan: I think common connection with "The French Connection" and the actors who sing is a European or at least not an American one. Particularly with women. Each of the women you mention have enjoyed a certain success in Europe. But what of the ones in the U.S.? Reply: Oh, I agree. I believe that Americans objectify their sex symbols of both genders; but; women in society as a whole ARE objectified more. (my original comparison was confined to men and women in the arts) This exploitation is partly through media saturation of female sexuality being used to sell beer and cars, to an unhealthy or un-natural view of human sexuality by society in general. Even the acting success that Milla Jovovich (using a previous example) has enjoyed was not without controversy here. Luc Besson, her then husband (French, BTW) produced her first film role, "The Fifth Element" Moreover he lost a more prominent director for her portrayal of "The Messenger" (Joan of Arc) because of his choice of her as the lead character. European women have a considerable edge in upward mobility. Compare the roles of women in politics, the arts and in international affairs of Europe and the U.S. We're ahead of the Middle-East but not quite up to the cultural standards of Europe (in my meager opinion) Zan:That's probably what I am considering. Women are still not allowed much area for growth, the proverbial "glass ceiling" in America. Both of us are from the U.S. and the Midwest, so let's take our own experiences with open-mindedness and consider that in terms of women's equality in the whole of society. You have mentioned that you are trying to reject stereotypes about your home and people, where do you think that begins? I know I have had many discussions with people in the Midwest and they are just unable to respect and understand these concepts. Not everyone, just the majority. Reply:I believe that their is often a grain of truth in many stereotypes. There are people in the southern United States that are bigots or ignorant on many levels. This is also a truth of a percentage of people everywhere. It is grossly unfair to lump everyone together though. Attractive women have so often been portrayed as ditzy or dumb. In a male-dominated media, this stereo type suited the purposes of creating fantasy about passive women who think like immature men (with no mind of their own). Look at all the older man younger woman portrayals. In the absence of fame, money and power, these relationships rarely exist. Forgive this final Milla example; but, she rebuffed Mick Jagger's overtures toward her. I think that speaks highly of her, and makes him look ignorant, thus proving my point. Right? (except for the fact that he's British!, but as I said, a certain percentage of ignorance and bigotry exists everywhere) * I've tried to reset the original post to no avail. Zan, it seems like we're picking on your posts/ Please forgive my oversight. I have kept most of your original comments that I responded to, at least. Please fill in any blanks and then continue our discussion. It's getting very complex and interesting.
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Post by Xanadu on Sept 18, 2003 18:05:21 GMT
I believe that their is often a grain of truth in many stereotypes. There are people in the southern United States that are bigots or ignorant on many levels. This is also a truth of a percentage of people everywhere. It is grossly unfair to lump everyone together though.I was never intending to offend anyone, I hope you understand that. My intention was to only reference a sort of stereotype that I have been personally a part of, the Midwest. Since moving west, I have become aware of how more narrow-minded some people there are. I only chose that stereotype since I felt it represented not an aggressively sexist or ignorant group, but the average cross-section of America. The stereotype of meat & potatos, white bread Americana. Not everyone, of course, that is unfair, but there is a certain large number that is unable to appreciate those concepts. The traditional values and upbringing are the center of this culture. I could have referenced the South or the East, but I can't speak from experience with those stereotypes. And since moving west, I have been labeled by those in the Midwest as a nut or a wacky liberal. See my point? I do think the last part of what I said was lost, and now aparently gone forever , but it was an attempt to keep an eye on the original topic. Perhaps it is the "French" or European connection that allows women a complexity and upward mobility, in every aspect, political or otherwise. Obviously I'm not saying that's the way it should be, but just an observation that I don't see changing soon. Take the Martha Stewart argument... would she be quite as ridiculed if she was a powerful, intelligent man? Both insecure men and women fear her instead of appreciating the business she created. Then there's the point of her arrogance, seclusion and demanding expectations. As a woman with society as it stands, does she have any other options? This is an interesting discussion... however, I don't really know what happened here. Why my posts? Should I start to take this personally?
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Post by Al Truest on Sept 19, 2003 2:00:45 GMT
The reason I messed up your post, is 'cos I'm am digitally retarded. I thought it was my posting in color that was done incorrectly. I was editing instead of quoting. I'll be more careful. I did not, however, misconstrue your reference to stereo-typical southerners. I knew where you were coming from. You had noticed my awareness of the prejudice from my previous posts. Your challenge, I think, was for me to use these misconceptions in consideration of the female perspective. If you only could, you'd make a deal with God. Right? You mention Martha Stewart. Sharon Stone is another similar example. There are numerous actresses with the "difficult" reputation to deal with. They don't always get the role because of this. I chose Ms Stone because she voiced these sentiments in a recent interview. The upshot however, is that strong, opinionated or independant women are considered hard to work with or the vulgar "B" word. Men on the otherhand with these charateristics are bold, forceful or "leaders" There are some women who can manipulate their sexuality to their own benefit. I guess they are only victimized if they feel they must do so for survival (literally or figuratively) When are women in charge of dictating their own sexuality? Are men still calling the shots? Will they always do so? Moreover, do (some) other women help perpetuate the stereo-types? Many people of both genders try to keep the subject of sex taboo, and therefore unhealthy. I believe there will always be some tension between the sexes to preserve the mystery and enigmatic dynamics of love, lust and power. The rules of engagement may never really be clearly defined. Equality and justice will become more available to women. But, I think, there will always be a struggle. These are some complex issues here. It sometimes takes generations to change the collective awareness of society. Just as racial injustice has not disappeared; some of the old hatreds and prejudices have literally died off. The salvation is always youth and knowledge. Will young people embrace enlightenment, or carry on the tradition of ignorance from those who fear change?
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